American Renaissance
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AR Articles on Curious Customs and Beliefs

White Might, Black Fright (Feb. 1994)

Liver of Darkness (Dec. 2003)

African Angst (Sep. 2001)

The Voodoo Defense (Feb. 1998)

African Plea Bargain (Aug. 1993)

More news stories on Curious Customs and Beliefs

Vanessa E. Jones, Boston Globe, Boston.com, Aug. 19

Whether you call it “colorism” or the “color complex,” the politics of skin tone play an active role in the African-American community. The groundbreaking 1992 book “The Color Complex” brought the phenomenon of favoritism toward light-skinned blacks into the mainstream. It traced its origins to America’s slave-holding past, when white masters mated with their African slaves. But colorism’s grip on society continues into the 21st century. You see it in the honey-colored hootchies who reign in R&B; and hip-hop videos. You see it in the faces of golden-toned celebrities — Halle Berry, Queen Latifah, and Beyonce — whom major cosmetic companies hire to endorse their products.

What you hear less about is how the color complex threads through the Asian-American and Latino communities. In these worlds, elders caution children to stay out of the sun so they don’t get too tan. The ideal spouse is often pale. These sentiments are the vestiges of home countries where skin color has everything to do with perceptions of class and wealth.

Cuban-American pop star Christina Milian, who scored a hit this summer with “Dip It Low,” dragged colorism into the open in the July issue of Latina magazine. In a cover-story profile, she demanded people expand their idea of Latin beauty beyond the light-complexioned examples of Jennifer Lopez and Salma Hayek. Director Mira Nair explored the politics of skin color in the South Asian community in her critically acclaimed 1991 film “Mississippi Masala.” The fair-is-best mentality prevails, however. Skin-whitening creams do big business in Hong Kong, the Philippines, Japan, and Malaysia. The stars of telenovelas, the Spanish-language soaps that air on Telemundo and Univision, are generally blond and pale. Flick on the TV and you may catch L’Oreal’s ad for its True Brown hair color featuring Aishwarya Rai. With her striking blue-gray eyes and milky skin, the Bollywood actress could easily pass for white. Despite the pervasiveness of the message, the preference for light complexions among Asian-American and Latino communities is so minimally explored you most often read about it in scholarly articles or books.

This is dirty-laundry territory. Ethnic groups don’t want this aspect of their culture publicized. Two sisters in their 20s — one creamy-skinned, one caramel-colored — eagerly told the Globe how these issues play out in their Mexico City hometown: dance clubs that will not let in dark-hued people; a country in which the haves tend to be light-skinned descendents of the Spanish or French, and the have-nots darker indigenous Indians. But a conversation at one sister’s home about the skin-color dynamics in their family created such a rift between the sisters that one of them placed a frantic phone call days later asking to omit the information.

Why do such diverse ethnic groups find unity in colorism? One reason is racism. As Margaret Hunter, a sociology professor at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, writes in this year’s “Skin/Deep: How Race and Complexion Matter in the `Color-Blind’ Era” “in the US where white racism still operates, light skin is defined as more beautiful and more desirable than dark skin, particularly in women.”

That preconception endures in the words parents tell their children, says Anita Raj, an assistant professor at the Boston University School of Public Health, who this summer taught the graduate course “Race/Ethnicity and Health.” “We all have internalized racism,” says Raj. “It’s in there. It’s in all of us. If you’re raised a certain way and someone’s told you this your whole life, it’s hard to get it out.”

Western values

But racism merely scratches the surface of the problem. The color complex is the legacy of a jumble of issues: colonialism, class, and a Hollywood culture that exports a white-skinned, blond-haired ideal.

“There’s no group in the world I have come across that’s not affected by this issue,” says Ronald Hall, co-author of “The Color Complex” and author of last year’s “Skin Color as a Post Colonial Issue Among Asian Americans,” who travels to Japan, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Mexico to study skin color. “Any place where Western values, Western norms permeate — and that’s pretty much the world we’re in now — then you have this.”

Raj, Hiroko Kikuchi, and Ana Morales come from different ethnic groups, but all grew up hearing the cautionary words: “Stay out of the sun.” If Kikuchi’s grandmother told her, “You look darker” when Kikuchi was a child in Tokyo, she knew those words weren’t a compliment. Kikuchi’s younger sister, Ayako, who’s slightly darker than Kikuchi’s manila hue, had it even worse. Her coloring was deep enough for her grandmother and peers at school to call her “Indian,” which was considered a slur, says Kikuchi, 31, an education/outreach coordinator at MIT’s List Visual Arts Center.

Tanning, remembers Kikuchi, was “not something you could ever do. It’s a class thing.”

The class connection harks back to agrarian societies that left the lower classes toiling in sun-drenched fields. “The greater the privilege,” says Raj, “the less likely you’d be exposed to the sun.” Indigenous people could erase the stigma of dark skin by marrying the Europeans who colonized their countries. Now, Hall says, when you visit Central or South America you find the fair-complexioned people are the ones who possess “the education, the wealth. [They’re] idealized with respect to beauty.” Hall adds, “With respect to Latinos, it’s still a sign of status to have white blood.”

Skin color is such an obsession in these countries that specific words describe distinct skin tones from “hincha,” Puerto Rican slang for “glass of milk” to “morena,” literally “brown.” The underlying tensions of the color complex bubble over when Latinos reach American shores. The first lawsuit over skin discrimination in the United States, tried in 1980, did not involve African Americans, says Hall. Felix v. Manquez pitted a dark-skinned Puerto Rican woman against her light-skinned Puerto Rican supervisor.

Kikuchi thinks her grandmother’s negative opinion about dark skin was also tied to conceptions of beauty. “You get more wrinkles if you tan,” she believes her grandmother thought. “A woman should be beautiful.” Kikuchi traces the white-skinned ideal in Japan back to the Genroku Era from 1688 to 1704, which birthed the white-faced Kabuki theater tradition. “That’s the period when women started to put makeup on,” she says. Women painted their faces white, their lips red and, if they were married, blackened their teeth. The popularity of one aspect of this aesthetic continues. As the International Herald Tribune stated in a February article about Japanese beauty, “the emphasis is on fairness, and the whiter, the better.”

In the South Asian community of Jackson, Miss., where Raj grew up, beauty also equaled pale. “You hear this a lot,” says Raj, sitting in her closet-size South End office. “`She’s so beautiful, she’s so fair.”‘ Her sister repeats the cycle of their youth by cautioning her children to stay out of the sun. That’s something Raj, the mother of two, would never do.

“[My sister] married an Indian; I married an American,” Raj explains. “That’s the difference. I want my kids to get some color so they look more like me.” Still, Raj feels that her cafe au lait hue can get only so dark. “I look at people who have dark skin and think they are very beautiful,” Raj says. “But I feel I’m not supposed to have that.”

Class struggle

Ana Morales may have skin the color of sand, but her family taught her to think of herself as white. She loved darkening her body in the sun of her Puerto Rican homeland — much to her mother’s horror. “Every time I came home from the beach, she was like, `Oh, my God.’ … And it wasn’t about skin cancer,” says Morales, 27, editor of the local Latino e-magazine Candela and author of the Globe’s monthly “Latin Scene” column. “She thought I was just ugly and she would give me all of these products to get rid of the tan immediately.”

Don’t confuse the desire for pale skin with a self-hating desire to be Caucasian, says Morales. The goal was to be “not necessarily white and blonde, but Spanish,” she says.

And don’t think this mindset affects everyone of color. Luis Leon, Morales’s husband, says he didn’t become aware of the politics of skin color until he and his family moved to New Jersey in 1989. He grew up in Puerto Rico’s countryside to a mother he describes as “snow white” and a father who sported an Afro. In school Leon learned Puerto Ricans were a mixture of Spanish, African, and Indian cultures. “I wasn’t even thinking that she was white and he was — there was no definition,” says Leon, 26, who lives in East Weymouth. “It was just mom and dad.”

Morales thinks Leon’s ability to escape the drama of colorism directly relates to class. Leon agrees. “It’s not a skin issue in Puerto Rico unless you move up the social hierarchy,” he says. “That’s when it gets as clear and as obvious as here in the US.”

Leon’s mother felt the first sting of discrimination at a New Jersey hospital. Her white skin, he believes, caused the black and Latino workers to treat her less diligently than their browner-skinned patients. As a fair-complexioned South Asian woman, Gouri Banerjee finds her skin color places her at a disadvantage in her interactions with whites and blacks.

“Being darker than Caucasians, I sense some degree of aloofness, distance, and avoidance,” Banerjee, an associate professor of information technology at Emmanuel College, writes in an e-mail. Her children once regularly played at a soccer field in Winchester, but the white people there rarely bid her hello. When Banerjee visits expensive stores, she finds she has to seek out salespeople: “I am not usually served because of my dark skin.”

That “dark” skin doesn’t translate into automatic acceptance among brown people. Banerjee must make the first overtures to African- and Caribbean-Americans, she says, “because I am not seen as dark enough… I have many black students in my classes at Emmanuel College, and it takes me a while to break through the barriers of color and race and reach them as human beings and aspiring young adults.”

Having pale skin does have its privileges, however. “I am very aware of being fair-complected,” says Raj, “and I do think that I am treated differently because of that.” Ask Raj to elaborate and she begins to backtrack. “It’s so hard when you are guessing,” she says vaguely, “but I think in some ways, you know, life’s a little easier.” She summons up an example from her days as an undergraduate in the late 1980s at Mississippi College in Clinton, Miss., where potential beaus considered Raj light enough to be a possible date but too dark to actually ask out.

Bronx-born Nyvia Colon, a first-generation Puerto Rican who grew up in Jamaica Plain and Roxbury, used to hear these words of wisdom from her grandfather: “Don’t marry a black man.” His comments confused young Colon. After all, her grandfather had what Colon calls “very dark skin,” kinky hair, and light eyes. She was tempted to ask him, “Have you looked at yourself in the mirror lately?”

However, her grandfather’s advice is being heeded by an increasing number of people of color. Third-generation Latinos and Asians marry out of their race more than 50 percent of the time, says Barry Edmonston, director of the Population Research Center at Portland State University in Oregon. Their spouses are usually Caucasian.

In Colon’s mind, many Latinos sense that having dark skin in the United States can make life infinitely harder. “There are a lot of [Latin] people who do not want to be mistaken for `black,”‘ says Colon, “even if the color [of] their skin is black. The perception in the Latino community … is that if you are considered black you don’t have a great chance to be financially successful.”

Read the rest of this story here.

(Posted on August 30, 2004)

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Comments

favoritism toward light-skinned blacks

Sorry, but it's not favoritism. There is a reason Afro-Americans are relatively smart compared with Afro-Africans, and it has everything to do with Massa's more wicked impulses.

Ethnic groups don’t want this aspect of their culture publicized.

It's not culture. It's absolutely everywhere. Name one country where lighter skinned people are (without direct oppression) the underclass, or light skinned women are considered less attractive. It's been explained: That handful of successful dark-skinned men (for instance, George P. Bush) invariably marry light-skinned women. Thus, the most intelligent dark-skinned men have lighter children, while the others stay dark. It is not (read it loud and clear: IT IS NOT) white racism which makes brown-skinned men attracted to white women.

Posted by onetwothree at 5:54 PM on August 30

Well of course having white skin or at least looking westernized, hence white is much more attractive than the dark people of the world. Of course all these mestizos, asiatics and even many blacks when it comes to it really do have much desire to look white. Being white is really beautiful! Of course this standard of beauty is derided all the time by those who are jealous and resentful of that lovely skin and the features that are endemic to white people, mainly that of blonde hair, blue eyes, green eyes and even hazel. They want to be white so much, not so much for what they think is the "easiest" way to advance in America, Canada, Australia and most every European country, but because they want to look beautiful. This is almost precisely why blonde jokes are so du jour with nonwhites and liberals. They cannot be truly blonde, so they resort to this name calling.

And when it comes to diversity it is us whites who have that idea cornered. As mentioned above, we have the greatest range of hair color and eye color. The rest of the world the media tries to promote in many TV shows and movies as so "wonderful" is all dark or at least much less white than people of direct European descent. They predominantly have brown hair or black hair and brown hair or black eyes.

I am all for people improving themselves to look beautiful, but when these people don't realize is that like even with us whites who get nose jobs and breast jobs, the genetics do not change. Just because a dark skinned Vietnamese girl gets her skin lightened does not mean the children she will have will be whitened, too, regardless of who she marries. Plastic surgery and whitening procedures do not fool Mother Nature.

Posted by Robert B. Weir at 7:18 PM on August 30

Well, the "tone" of this article is the expected Multi Cultist Marxist liberationist treacle. Plus we get an all new -ism to worry about, "colorism." Well, I guess they have to come up with a new -ism, to replace racism, for the day when the whites are all gone!

I can just see it now, "News of the Day, 8/30/3004, reported by Binjada Ragagushpadi. It was reported that the last of the white racist devils have been relocated to paradise. The Population Regulation and Fairness Department (PRFD) has seen fit to end the racism of the last racist white holdouts, who would only mate with their own kind. This was in direct violation of the 'No White Child For White Parents To Leave Behind Act' which outlawed the practice of intraCaucasoid reproduction.

In a related story, the PRFD warned that now that white racism has been tossed to the 'ash heap of history' colorism must also be stamped out..."

Posted by John P. M. at 7:25 PM on August 30

The oaf who said this is a result of Western values is showing his racism and his ignorance. These skin preferences seem to hold fast around the world. Perhaps it is time someone considered the fact that they are natural and biologically driven.

Posted by Bernie at 7:33 PM on August 30

Non-whites hate us, but most want to mate with
or look like us. All is whitey's fault,
even when it's an issue between non-whites.
The racism of most
non-whites boils down to jealousy, and liberal saps like the
one that authored this article blame Hollywood. Maybe they
ought to examine the behavior of black children who overwhelmingly select
white dolls to play with. These children are too young to be
influenced by white pop culture, so what does that tell you?

Posted by Augustus at 9:08 PM on August 30

Beauty isn't an idea, it's a feeling. You can't "expand your idea" of what constitutes beauty or sexual arousal. You're either attracted to someone, or you aren't. All of the magazine covers in the world couldn't make me attracted to Serena Williams, for example. And no matter what racial militants in non-white communities say, there is nothing that whites can do to make non-whites less attracted to us.

We're speaking about something that truly is a gut reaction. It's instinctual. You can't train me to find someone sexually attractive. I either do or I don't. I'll turn away from a dark-skinned Hispanic just as quickly the 100th time as I did the first time.

Posted by John at 11:04 PM on August 30

Think about the primitive hours of human history. The further you moved from the Equator (and the sun that darkens skin), the smarter and more responsible you needed to be to avoid freezing, find food, and stay alive. It's simple Darwinian evolution. Smarter, more responsible people tend to be more successful in the long run.
What successful people exist along the Equator? Sub-Sahara Africa? Central America? Malasia? All poor. All backward. All overpopulated.
And, naturally and instinctively, people want their children to survive, so active procreators are attracted to spouses who have the most ideal genes. Look around you. Black men are often seen procreating with white women. How often do you see white men procreating with black women? Don't blame show business and the cosmetic industry. They simply reflect instinctual preferences for survival of the fittest.
As the skin color of your neighborhood increases in darkness, so does crime, school-dropout rate, teenage pregnancy, poverty, ignorance, and other negative elements. To say so is "politically incorrect," but damn it all, it is also true.
White people are generally more successful not because of racism, but rather, the result of being more talented, and being able to work harder. Notice I said GENERALLY. Of course you can single out the examples of stupid white people, just as you can find the token brilliant black people.
So what do we do about this? How do we stop the ridiculous lie that says "multicultural diversity" is a positive development? Is higher civilization doomed?
Political correctness defies the laws of natural selection. It allows the weaker genes to proliferate, while those of us with intelligence and responsibility have learned to control our share of the overpopulation problem. Political correctness is a corrosive acid that is eroding humankind. I am losing hope in the future.

Posted by Bernard Veromo at 12:18 AM on August 31

Come on guys. This isn't fair. Extremes of any "color" are considered unattractive. Yeah really dark skin is considered unatttractive but ultra white skin isn't exactly sought after either.Red haired, really white people are considered unattractive by most, I mean let's be frank here. And blondes with a nice dark tan are considered super hot across the boards! these days Halle Berry is one of the hottest women in show biz, because her features are middle of the road and beautiful. I doubt even the meanest Klansman would turn her down, especially after a beer ot two. Or six.

Racism has never been about skin color--it's about civilizational differences. White people are not leery of blacks because they have black skin--it's because of the rampant violence amongst blacks. I mean nobody feels any fear when they encounter a bunch of Asian males. Unless of course they are driving a car!

Posted by Bob at 1:08 AM on August 31

How can it be "White racism"'s fault when a Chinaman prefers a light-skinned Chinawoman for his bride? Or a Hindu applies bleaching chemicals to her skin, to reach her own society's beauty standard?

Posted by American Woman at 1:38 AM on August 31

Let's see - what's this? About the three millionth article written about this garbage since 1965 or so? Thousands of books -trillions of words have been written and it won't make one bit of difference. If Bill Gates was forced at gunpoint to hand over all his money to AR and we could get our 'message' out and we handcuffed everyone to a radiator and made them listen, it wouldn't make any difference.

There are radio talk show hosts who have audiences that range from 10-20 million a week; writers whose books sell at over a million or two a clip; one TV station (conservative-light), which reaches millions; internet sites that get a million hits a month (and more); scores of millions of people who know the score, ad infinitum -- and it won't make a difference.

Like this (or any other post here or anywhere else) -- Maybe 10-20 people might read it; maybe 3-4-5 people will agree with it; maybe 1-2 people will disagree with it -- and none of it will make any difference whatsoever, in the least...

We have a genetic mutation, which, in addition to allowing us to create the most advanced civilizations, have the highest IQs; invent the most complex creations, ad nauseum on the upside -- also, somehow brings along with that, the highest form of altruism ever seen in the history of this planet. That, in and unto itself wouldn't be a bad thing, but it has mutated into a demented form of self-flagellation and annihilation. If it only affected a few of us, we could overcome that, but it affects far too many of us and when those affected control the power -- well, you can fight City Hall all you want -- ...but then again, I'm a cynical pessimist. Possibly the ONLY thing that can defeat this mutation is a personal run-in with 'diversity', where that person barely escapes with their life -- and even then, you know stories about people who blame themselves...

...But I digress --
Anybody else notice this in the article written by Mzzzz. Black Feminist, Affirmative Action, Multi-Culti, Diversity Above All, Journalist "Du Coleur"?

She reported:
"Why do such diverse ethnic groups find unity in colorism? One reason is RACISM."

-and-
"in the US where WHITE RACISM still operates..."

-but then-
"Two sisters in their 20s — one creamy-skinned, one caramel-colored — eagerly told the Globe how these issues play out in their Mexico City hometown: dance clubs that will NOT let in dark-hued people;"

Does this strike anybody else as just slightly ironic and agenda driven? Btw, if you'd like to see a picture of Mzzzz. Militant, who also happens to be the Reviewer of all things Hip-Hop and Rap for the Boston (Diaspora) Globe, check out this happy picture:
https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/03.06/10-whose.html
(and scroll down half-way)

Now tell me, although one 'shouldn't' judge a book by its cover, does that Angela Davis knock-off look like someone sympathetic to anyone not of her 'persuasion', gender or sexuality?

Ahhhh - the bright new face of America (pun sort of intended)...

Posted by Mike B. at 2:55 AM on August 31

Light skin has always been a sign of beauty in the east, certainly in India, ancient stories alwys refer to fair0sknned women as beautiful women. This concept of fiar skin as good, is hardly new, or based on colour. Perhaps it may have some strains of new cultural influences, but I have yet to hear of dark0skinned people as conventionally beautiful, even in 'non-white' countires, with the possible exception of Africa (which i don't know much about).

Posted by darkmidas at 3:46 AM on August 31

Mike B--

I won't give specific numbers, but you vastly underestimate the number of people who are reading this web site.

Posted by Ian Jobling (AR webmaster) at 10:06 AM on August 31

"It's not culture. It's absolutely everywhere. Name one country where lighter skinned people are (without direct oppression) the underclass, or light skinned women are considered less attractive. It's been explained: That handful of successful dark-skinned men (for instance, George P. Bush) invariably marry light-skinned women. Thus, the most intelligent dark-skinned men have lighter children, while the others stay dark. It is not (read it loud and clear: IT IS NOT) white racism which makes brown-skinned men attracted to white women."

The aforementioned is true, but then why do successful white men (German, American, Danish)frequently marry dark minority women and why do attractive White European women frequently marry Blacks. Over 50% and counting of Mexican, Puerto Rican, native Americans have white spouses. It seems that minorities think whites are attractive, but whites don't seem to think so otherwise they would not continue to marry dark minorities. European newspapers of full of adds of beautiful white women seeking black mates.

one, two, three remember there is always two sides to every story. By the way, is your wife white? Or are you even married.

Posted by at 11:36 AM on August 31

The issue is what to do to dark skinned people.

I'm dark skinned. I'm a Brazilian with the all too common mix of Indian and Black and White. I've had a very fair skinned girlfriend, blue eyed and all, and right after that a girl just as dark as I am. She even had a closer black ascendancy, her father was a mulatto, even though her mother was trully white. In my family things got mixed in upper generations, neither my father is trully white, nor my mother trully dark.

I have to confess I have been much more atracted to the darker girl. The white one was skinny, neurastenic, sexually sterile, the darker was calm and shapely and reactive. I'd be satisfied with her degree of lighness. But in the overall, white girls are the prettiest. My white girlfriend, even though very pale, was Jewish, with a sort of bizarre profile. But the trully white wouldn't, understandably, go with me. Even the Jewish one didn't stay with me for long, and is not stalking a Iranian guy much lighter then me.

So I guess I'd have to do it in stages. The dark-as-me girl, bearing children not much less pretty then herself, would stand a better chance with the Jewish girl. The children of the Jewish girl, a better chance with trully white people. Racial scallation in three generations.

But what if every dark person tries that? The result is an unbearable pressure over white people. They will soon cease to exist in the current trend, being dissolved in a sea of mixed people.

There is only one solution: That white people would increase dramatically their breeding rates, and darker people decrease ours. Let's aim for black and brown people to have one children per couple, thus decreasing the frequency of those genes, hazel people like me have one and a half to two children per couple, thus preserving the good genes we've achieved through mixing, partially white people like the Jewish girl to have 3 to 4, and trully white people at least 4, up to 8 or as many as they can, thus providing everybody, black, brown, hazel, quasi-white and true white people with true white genes to mate with.

It's like dog breeding adaptated to Human necessities. You try to increase the incidence of the desired genes in the population's gene pool. I, for instance, despite of my hazel color and overall unatractive looks, have an IQ in the 99th percentile. We should preserve the IQ and get rid of the hazel.

Posted by Eikin Kloster at 1:53 PM on August 31

How can it be "White racism"'s fault when a Chinaman prefers a light-skinned Chinawoman for his bride? Or a Hindu applies bleaching chemicals to her skin, to reach her own society's beauty standard?

Posted by American Woman at 1:38 AM on August 31

It is not racism and nobody's fault. Just like it is not racism when whites lay naked on the beach for hours trying to darken their skin or lay in a coffin like box receiving ulta violet rays just to meet European society beauty standards.

Posted by at 2:48 PM on August 31

South India is far more advanced than North India and Pakistan. It has less corruption, more economic and social development, a higher literacy rate, and is far wealthier. Many South Indian cities are centers of high-tech industries. Several hundred thousand South Indians are in the U.S. on H-1B visas to do computer prgramming. There are also many South Indian graduate students in the U.S. to do work in science or engineering.

If dark skin is a sign of inferiority, why are the dark-skinned people of South India so much more intelligent than the light-skinned people of North India and Pakistan? Why are those North Indians with Aryan genes unable to compete with the non-Aryan South Indians?

Posted by Raj at 5:11 PM on August 31

Raj,

The Brahmin are all near-white, yes? We're talking about subsets in particular populations. Spain is wealthier than Poland, but I'd wager that there is an (imperfect) correlation between lighter skin and wealth within both countries.

Posted by onetwothree at 10:59 PM on August 31

Ian,

"I won't give specific numbers, but you vastly underestimate the number of people who are reading this web site."

>> BELIEVE me - I KNOW that!! I was obviously being facetious.
I only WISH that AR got millions of hits (unique IPs) a month.

All I meant was if you've every argued with a leftoid robot (as we all have, I'm sure) about ANY subject (not just race), you know that they're all the same Stepford Robots. 2 + 2 = 5 to them and then they hurl an "-ism" invective at you (which means they've lost they argument of course) and then they stomp off -- end of 'discussion'.

I work for a major conservative site (although my ideology is more akin to AR (any openings?!)) and I'm glad to be there because I didn't used to do what I do now (see below). I know how sites operate, how they're funded, how much work goes into making one successful and widespread (which is why I made that crack about Bill Gates' bucks). AR (J.T.) has done some great and courageous work for 13 years or so and one of the best innovations (re: the Net presence) has been this forum. People love to read AR (the hard copy) and write Letters to the Editor and they've always liked reading AR online.

The 'secret' is to always keep it new and fresh and let people 'sound off'. People (most people) want to be able to 'get it off their chest' and that was the best thing you (AR) did was in making this an interactive site.

As far as my previous comment, like everyone else, you have highs and lows; three steps backward - one step forward -- and it's been that way for 40 years now. Last night was one of those 'three step backward' moments...
----------------------------------------------------------------
Raj,
"Several hundred thousand South Indians are in the U.S. on H-1B visas to do computer programming."

>> Yeah - thanks pal for so off-handedly reminding us. One of your vaunted H-1B/L-1 Visa holders took my programming job two years ago, which I had been doing for 25 years. Half our department was let go. I've been railing against this garbage on Vdare (and everywhere else) since then.

I don't blame YOU personally for all of THEM -- I blame our government, as much as I blame them for not sealing the borders and kicking out every illegal alien who's EVER come here for the last 40 years. What got me wasn't WHAT you said, it was HOW you said it -- you're so non-plussed about it -- as if it was some kind of Indian birthright.

What most people don't know (and why should they) is that most of the Indian programmers work for $25-$30K (which is 2-3-4-5 times less than American programmers). While I can honestly say (to be fair -- one of those Western Civilization altruistic conditions -- fairness) that only one of all the Indian programmers with whom I worked would be considered a 'militant', the rest were reasonably polite and civilized. HOWEVER, if you've ever looked at their programming code (as I did until it was oozing from my ears), I can also honestly say, with SOME exceptions, MOST of them coded at a level commensurate with their salaries (low).

H-1B/L-1 Visas are the South Asian equivalent of black 'affirmative' action.

But then again -- YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR...

Posted by Mike B. at 2:37 AM on September 1

"If dark skin is a sign of inferiority, why are the dark-skinned people of South India so much more intelligent than the light-skinned people of North India and Pakistan? Why are those North Indians with Aryan genes unable to compete with the non-Aryan South Indians?"

Your reading comprehension is not terribly impressive. The article is about aesthetics, not intelligence. Who cares why one kind of Indian surpasses another? When I place a service call to AOL or some other vendor, and the person at the other end is a gibbering, incompetent, quasi-literate Indian, I don't particularly care what flavor he is. I simply hang up the phone, contact white administrators in the US, and explain that I won't be continuing with them if they have such contempt for their customers that they place third-world primitives in their service centers.

Posted by Cassiodorus at 11:27 AM on September 1

"The Brahmin are all near-white, yes?"

Some Brahmins are light-skinned, but most are as dark as the average Iraqi. Some are very dark-skinned. Very few of them could pass as white.

">> Yeah - thanks pal for so off-handedly reminding us. One of your vaunted H-1B/L-1 Visa holders took my programming job two years ago, which I had been doing for 25 years. Half our department was let go. I've been railing against this garbage on Vdare (and everywhere else) since then. "

I sympathize with you. I'm actually opposed to the H-1B visa program because it's resulting in many of India's most talented people going overseas and creating resentment among many people. These people should be staying in India and contributing to its economy. I wouldn't care if they ended the program soon.

I only brought it up to show that dark-skinned South Indians are more educated than light-skinned North Indians with Aryan ancestry.

Indians actually respect Westerners a lot. There is a lot of admiration of American and English people in India. Most Indians would like to see a strong relationship develop between these countries and India.

Indians have also contributed a lot to the West by being doctors in underserved rural communities, teaching at universities, contributing to science and technology, opening small businesses in high-crime neighborhoods, and committing little crime. They are a model minority.

However, I think it's neccessary to limit immigration from India to low levels. There are currently too many people leaving India and coming here. This naturally creates resentment and slows down assimilation.


Posted by Raj at 3:18 PM on September 1

Yes, light-complexioned women are the ideal in East Asia, but is "colonialism" really to blame? Let's examine the facts:
Japan was never a colony of any nation.
China was never a colony of any nation.
Korea was a colony, but ruled by JAPAN from 1911 to 1945.

European whites have absolutely no guilt for Asian "colorism". Note also that different Asian ethnic groups hate each other, especially Japanese, Chinese and Koreans. White Europeans didn't have anything to do with this, either.
While I am currently dating a Japanese woman, it has occurred to me that she isn't one of the tan ones.

Skin color is determined by the amount of sunlight in the area where a race's evolution occurred. Very little sunlight in an area results in light-complexioned people; dark ones are incapable of manufacturing enough vitamin D and they get ricketts. Light-complexioned people in very sunny areas also suffer, but the risk of skin cancer is not the evolutionary/biological problem here. Skin cancer rarely takes hold until you're in your 40s, by which time you have already had any children you're likely to produce. The problem for light-skinned people in the tropics is that the UV in the excessive sunlight destroys folate in the women. Insufficient folic acid during pregnancy results in a baby with spina bifida. This is significant in evolutionary terms. Because of the vitamin D demands of pregnancy, women are lighter-complexioned than men of their race. The appeal of light-complexioned women in every culture and every era is probably for the same reasons that an hourglass figure was also attractive; it made them better mothers.

Posted by M. Scott at 8:51 PM on September 1

Hey M. Scott--

Just curious--why do you bother posting on a pro-White site if you are having mixed relationships yourself? Intermarriage with Asians will extinguish the white people just as fast as mixing with blacks and Mexicans.

As a White woman I can't stand the sight of a White man with a woman of another race! You're not part of the solution buddy--you're part of the problem!

Posted by "Just Say No To Mixing" at 8:39 AM on September 3

-Just Say No To Mixing

Not too many white men really want nonwhite women most prefer their own kind. However white facial features, blonde hair, blue eyes, and the personality types common to white women are not every white man’s ideal. Some guys just prefer something a little different. There has always been and will always be some blending on the edges, it didn’t destroy the white race in ancient times and it won’t now. The Japanese are also a highly intelligent and capable race. I for one certainly don’t consider mixing with a Japanese as detrimental as mixing with a black or a Mexican mestizo. And so long as the overwhelming majority of white men marry other whites you really shouldn’t feel threatened by guys like M. Scott and me at all.

Posted by Dan at 6:26 AM on September 5

Well Dan,

Thanks for addressing my issue. Certainly I understand that you have a right to date whomever you want. I respectfully disagree with you though that mixing is being done "on the edges". The worrisome thing is that it is going mainstream.

As a parent to several small children I see them constantly bombarded with messages by the media and even within their school that mixed families are the ideal. Even many kid shows such as "Berenstein Bears", "Sesame Street" and others show mixed families as typical. It's scary! T. V. viewing is kept to a minimum at our place.

For white children to grow up with a healthy sense of identity they need to be exposed to white couples in stable family relationships. They need to understand that their ideal mate is one of their own race. I do all I can to make that happen in my family.

If you really care in your heart for the future of the white race & culture you might give white women another chance. You said you prefer something a little different. Maybe you should hop a plane to France or Italy and check out the dark-haired, dark-eyed women there. I have met a number of them and they are intelligent and in great physical shape. Mostly they are less "career-ambitious" than American women and tend to put their relationships first. You might be very pleased with what you find!

Posted by Just Say No to Mixing at 1:12 PM on September 7

Actually, Cassioduros, it's you who seems to have problems with reading comprehension. The article is not about aesthetics, it's about status. While in the comments to the article, the issue of aesthetics was raised By Robert Weir to explain status, while the issue of intelligence was raised by Bernard Veromo: "They simply reflect instinctual preferences for survival of the fittest."

Raj's argument doesn't hold, though. The higher development of darker Indians doesn't counter act the general tendency in the rest of the world. They might just have had the bad luck of preserving the weaker white genes for intelligence. The average IQ for non-hispanic white fellons in the US is 90, while for black students at the MIT it's 120. If you, by some weird of fate, end up with a society built upon these two very selected groups, you will have a society made up of brighter blacks and dumb whites. Something of the kind might have happened in India.

Posted by Anunnaki at 12:57 PM on September 9

hey everone. racial bias is a mental state that exists not only in whites but blacks, browns, yellows as well. i think that we asians are as racial as anyone else but to say that racial prejudice does not exist at all amongsst the whites is irrational. i ve seen and experiencced the discrimination happening on the assount of skin color in u.s.
this is for all those wise guys who claim that therre is no racial bias in u.s.- if u r right, why r special security and custom checks in u.s. airports for the asians? dont tell me all of us are terrorists.

Posted by garima at 11:20 AM on November 27


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