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11 of 18 in Burn Unit Undocumented

Cheryl Clark and Leslie Berestein, Union-Tribune (San Diego), October 31, 2007

“These are the most expensive kinds of cases, but we don’t look at these patients and say, oh, because they aren’t legal residents, we’ll stop providing care or stop changing their bandages,” said Dr. Thomas McAfee, UCSD’s physician-in-chief. “It’s part of our ethic to continue to provide this care no matter what.”

According to the Mexican Consulate in San Diego, the burn victims are from central and southern Mexico, and include one woman. Four are in critical condition. All were rescued north of Tecate last week, said consulate spokesman Alberto Lozano, and it is suspected they had crossed the border illegally before coming face to face with the Harris fire.

{snip}

Those in critical condition may include a married couple from Guerrero, according to the consulate. The others are a 20-year-old man from Guerrero and a man from Chiapas.

With some facing a long rehabilitation, hospital officials said they realize many U.S. taxpayers don’t believe UCSD should provide such expensive hospital care to illegal immigrants. But, by law, that care must be provided “to anyone who comes regardless of their ability to pay.”

{snip}

Last year, San Diego County hospitals provided $619 million in uncompensated care, and an estimated 10 percent to 17 percent of that paid for treatment for undocumented immigrants, according to the Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties.

Burn care requires ventilators, multiple surgeries, round-the-clock intensive care and grafts from human cadaveric skin. McAfee said grafts can be grown from patients’ own skin to minimize tissue rejection at $500,000 per patient.

Last year, the average cost of treating a burn patient at UCSD was $45,000 for an average 15-day stay.

{snip}

Esmeralda Siu of the Coalición Pro Defensa del Migrante, a network of migrant shelters and other services in Baja California, said rules prevent the United States from sending Mexican nationals home before they can travel safely.

{snip}

Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that advocates immigration restrictions, said that in the case of the 11 border burn victims, it might make sense to request assistance from the Mexican government or arrange long-term care in their home country.

{snip}

The bottom line, hospital officials say, is that these patients need care.

“UCSD is faced with a real dilemma,” said Michael Bardin, a spokesman for Scripps hospitals. “Many of these burn patients will require care long term, and you can’t discharge them to the street. You have to have some place for them to go regardless of whether they are legal or not.”

Several sources of federal and state funding can help hospitals recoup some of that money, but they don’t come anywhere near a significant reimbursement, said Steve Escoboza, association president.

For example, the federal government provides $250 million per year for payments to eligible providers for emergency health care to undocumented immigrants. In 2005, San Diego County received only $1.4 million of that money.

A special Medi-Cal fund can reimburse costs of care for certain patients who can document strict criteria of U.S. residency, even if they are not in this country legally. But that fund pays for only a few days of care, or until the patient is stabilized.

Patients with severe burns may require months or years of physical therapy, medication and other forms of care. Sometimes these patients must be transferred out of the hospital to a caring family environment.

{snip}

A spokesman for the Border Patrol said the agency is held financially responsible for the medical bills of patients in the agency’s custody. But it appears that the rescued border crossers are not in its custody.

UCSD officials said no Border Patrol agents are stationed at the hospital.

Immigration officials do not have the sort of formal relationship with hospitals that they do with prisons, said Lauren Mack of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Agents routinely scout prisons and jails for deportable individuals.

{snip}

Mack said the arresting agency, such as the Border Patrol, is typically responsible for maintaining jurisdiction over an individual it wants to guard.

Still, Mack said, even if the hospitalized fire victims are not in immigration custody, anyone in the country illegally is deportable.

Damon Foreman, an agent in the Border Patrol’s San Diego sector, said the protocol with injured individuals who are to be deported is that “a doctor has to classify them as fit for travel or for incarceration.”

{snip}

“We are not sending agents to hospitals and going to everyone’s sick bed and finding out who is here illegally or not,” Foreman said. “The Border Patrol doesn’t do that. These people are there for help.”

{snip}

Original article

Email Cheryl Clark at cheryl.clark@uniontrib.com.

(Posted on November 1, 2007)

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Comments

Dr. Thomas McAfee: “It’s part of our ethic to continue to provide this care no matter what.”

As an American citizen, it’s part of my “ethic” not to have to take care of illegals “no matter what.” The illegal burn victims should be flown back to Mexico as soon as they’re stabilized, along with a bill to Mexico for their care.

Posted by Belle at 6:43 PM on November 1


We are only obligated to stabilize them, not keep them in the system for months and months fixing every little unrelated ailment until there is complete resolution. But they will.

As long as travel will not jeopardize their life, they should be returned to Tijuana post haste. They do have doctors, nurses, hospitals, and medicine in Mexico. And they should assume the responsibility for providing the care as soon as possible. But they won’t.

Posted by Edward at 6:51 PM on November 1


Lauren Mack of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says “anyone in the country illegally is deportable”.

Does this include illegals receiving driver’s licenses in New York?

Remember, in the aftermath of Katrina - a poor emergency response was blamed on unclear jurisdiction and co-ordination between city, state, and federal agencies.

In stead of “its not my job”, shouldn’t it be “it’s everyone’s job”?

It shouldn’t be a doctor’s job to see to the deportation of his illegal patient, but it should be the job of the hospital’s accountants!

Posted by at 6:58 PM on November 1


“The bottom line, hospital officials say, is that these patients need care.”

That is absolute baloney, fashioned from bull’s excrement!

The issue of the costs and travel, should be judged by the way Mexico treats injured and uninsured Americans in their country. Mexico consistently holds that an uninsured American is not going to receive treatment, period; thus, our country should reciprocate, regardless of how injured the invader is. That is just commonsense, and any who say otherwise, is a total fool and beneath contempt!

The issue of caring for an invader at all, is more “nebulous.” From my perspective, these invaders should simply be made not to suffer if Mexico refuses to pay for their care and a quadruple fine of those costs, for encouraging them to engage in their incursion in the first place. We are not obliged to treat them better than their fecklessly despotic rulers treat us and them in such situations; we are simply obliged to end their suffering, period.

From there, draw your own conclusions!

Posted by John PM at 7:09 PM on November 1


Those of us living in Southern California know all to weel the effects illegals have on our health care system. Doctors are required, as they should be, to treat people who are in an emergency and cannot afford to pay, or don’t have insurance. This is set up to help the less forunate among us. The problem is these illegals know this and take advantage of our system and abuse our generosity. They clog up our emergency rooms with non emergencies, creating staggering waits and higher health care costs for those of us who can pay. If Hitlery has her way this is all going to amplified. This leaves most people in a state of confusion, because noone wants to turn someone away who is in a life or death situation, yet the system is overwhelmed, and can’t continue at it’s current level of failure. We’ve lost sixty hospital in Kaleefornia, and that’s an old number, King/Drew/Harbor makes at least 61. Illegals abuse our health care system because they can, our liberalism and good will that was originally intended to help each other in times of need is being abused. An illegal who is pregnant will go to the emergency room and have her anchor baby at tax-payer expense, never paying a penny to her costs. An illegal gang-banger who’s been shot, will go to the emergency room for treatment, and rack up a huge bill at tax-payer expense. There’s been stories out here as well about employers of illegal immigrants dumping illegals off at the emergency room who are hurt on the job, but since they’re illegal don’t have any type of workman’s comp, so again tax-payers get stuck with the bill. Granted in that case, the employer should be stuck with the bill, but illegals won’t tell who they were working for. The only solution for these problems is to deport illegals. I don’t want my hospital having the ability to turn away people who are in dire need of help, but our system cannot continue at it’s current rate of decline. Also the hospitals should sue the mexican government for the health care costs associated with treating illegals.

Posted by pinchegabacho at 7:47 PM on November 1


Bill the Mexican government for the charges incurred in treating these burn victims.

Did you ever enter an American facility and tell them you had no insurance. They can and will turn you away.

Let the Americans that believe the illegals should get free medical care, education, etc. solely foot the bills. The generosity won’t last long.

Posted by at 8:04 PM on November 1


Notice the PC terms “migrant” and “undocumented.” I just couldn’t read the whole article, since it was marinated in PC babble. Call me heartless, but these sort of propaganda sob stories are not fit for a ostensibly serious, informative newspaper.

And the elites of the liberal/neocon alliance wonder why people are rejecting newspapers in favor of the Internet?

Posted by Old Victorian at 8:42 PM on November 1


Ok, fine. Send Mexico the bill. I can tell you if the reverse were true, mexico would kick any american who couldn’t pay back to the US regardless of how sick they were.

Posted by at 9:10 PM on November 1


Think that Mexican hospitals will treat anyone who comes in, but first they have to provide a credit card that the hospital can charge a $10,000 ‘deposit’ to. And, no I don’t believe that ill/injured Americans that cannot pay the deposit are deported from the hospital ER, I believe that they are simply kicked off the hospital grounds.

Posted by brew at 10:17 PM on November 1


It is a fact that our “good neighbor to the South” will let an American suffer and die like a dog if they are unfortunate enough to get sick or injured in mexico and are uninsured or the federales can’t extort a suitable amount of money out of the family in the U.S.A.

And you can bet your last peso mexico will not offer to reimburse us for their “empire expanding heroes” out of the oil revenues, foreign aid, or cash remittances we send them.

You can thank our gutless, feckless, useless, greedy corrupt, cowardly, disgusting politicians for this.

Posted by James at 11:04 PM on November 1


They will say that they are destitute and yet these same illegals have money to send back to their home countries. Maybe the next time I need emergency care I should just tell them I am an illegal alien.

Posted by JAM at 5:37 AM on November 2


>>>These are the most expensive kinds of cases, but we don’t look at these patients and say, oh, because they aren’t legal residents, we’ll stop providing care or stop changing their bandages,”

A FAIR POINT — but why should we American taxpayers ultimately be forced to pay the costs. BILL THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT! If they refuse to pay, then hang a 15% surcharge on all payments made to Mexican businesses — the money to be deducted from payments made — and sent to Uncle Sam. Also force the banks to add a 30% surcharge on all private remittances, money orders, etc. to Mexico and other Latin American countries.

Forget the fine-sounding lies about CHEAP LABOR — You and I, the American taxpayers are paying a stiff price in the end for this so-called cheap labor. Make the damned immigrants pay part of their cost to us — with surcharges. I mean, fair is fair, right?

Posted by Fed Up at 7:32 AM on November 2


I’ve been a health care worker on the border for
thirty years. Mexico allows Mexican ambulances

to cross into the US but will not permit American ambulances to cross into Mexico. They

will allow dismissed illegal aliens to return to

Mexico IF they are well enough to go in a taxi

and if the Mexican embassy gives approval papers. If they are from the interior, they

must be well enough to be sent by air.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for emergency care in Mexico, that’s all it

is. Unless the American citizen pays, there is

no further treatment. However, the patient is

NOT DISMISSED UNLESS AND UNTIL THE BILL IS PAID.

Then the patient can be transported to the US

side. I’ve seen compound (bone through skin)

fractures casted with dirt, gravel and dead

grass in the wound. I’ve seen car accicent

victims with no treatment except an IV and

dressings on the wounds who reach the US from

Monterey or Tampico with gangrene and massive

infections from lack of treatment.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Once these burn patients reach a rehab stage,

they are safe to transport. But don’t hold your

breath that the government will negotiate with

Mexico at that stage. And by then their families will all be here. All hospital workers

have to do is fill out a request for the American customs to allow this person, as a relative, to cross the bridge to see the patient. We had one woman who developed chest

pain while at a local mall. She went to our

emergency room and was discovered to be having

a heart attack. Within two days she had open

heart surgery for a bypass. Her family members

arrived and camped in 3 old suv/staton wagons in

the parking lot while she was in the hospital

and she was in the hospital longer than we

would have been, because Mexico wouldn’t accept

her unless “save to travel” (meaning in an

automobile) to her home 100 miles into Mexico.

Texas, and I assume all states, can apply for

temporary, emergency Medicaid that will pay

Medicaid rates for the hospitalization. When

babies are delivered for illegal aliens, in

order to get paid ANYTHING, the Feds require the

hospital to apply for a social security number for the baby before they can get paid for the illegal alien baby (baby charges only) by Medicaid. So the Feds ARE MAKING SURE THAT ALL ANCHOR BABIES ARE US CITIZENS.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IS THERE ANY WONDER WHY IT IS SUCH A BLESSING TO

BE A LEGAL OR ILLEGAL ALIEN FROM ANY COUNTRY TO

GET TO THE US??????????

Posted by Sra. Indignada at 7:54 AM on November 2


“Last year, San Diego County hospitals provided $619 million in uncompensated care, and an estimated 10 percent to 17 percent of that paid for treatment for undocumented immigrants, according to the Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties.”

As others have said, be compassionate, yes. As a Doctor, the Hippocratic oath is pre-eminent. But don’t make it into the Hypocritic Oath.

We should not, will not pay for this anymore; they are ILLEGALLY HERE- treat them, then bill Mexico, or whatever third world country they come from.

It’s only fair- if they want our Anglo-Saxon excellence, they have to pay for it.

For ‘he who will not work, shall not eat.’ That’s in the New Testament, as well as ‘love your enemies.’ And all of “LA RAZA” clearly- by their rhetoric, by their open avowals of ‘reconquista,’ by their drain on our Anglo-American way of life, have become not, amigos, but enemies.

Compassionate conservatism means never having to say the word, “Amnesty.”

“But if any provide not for his own, [i.e., Anglos] and specially for those of his own house,[i.e., Americans first] he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” - I tim. 5:8

Posted by Fr. John at 8:28 AM on November 2


Stabilize them, and send them home.

When Americans get into terrible accidents (legal tourists, mind you), they are virtually held for ransom. They don’t get a life flight back to the USA, until they have paid tens of thousands of dollars in virtual extortion money.

Posted by at 9:35 AM on November 2


Since our voices were clearly heard in June, and we stopped the “comprehensive Immigration Reform” disaster and more recently stopped the “Nightmare Act,” why can we not stop this drain of taxpayer money for medical expenses for illegal aliens?
Can we start another round of calls to demand that each illegal who comes in for medical care be deported and sent post haste back to Mexico. Can we also do this for the anchor baby debacle? That might be next on our list. Let’s take each thing, one by one, and we would soon see a severe decline in lawbreakers coming in. The word gets around. That’s why I’m always puzzled that they are so “fearful” when the ICE raids occur. They know they are breaking the law. I think it’s more a surprise that a country would actually enforce its laws! They aren’t used to that.

Posted by June at 11:21 AM on November 2


“The issue of the costs and travel, should be judged by the way Mexico treats injured and uninsured Americans in their country. Mexico consistently holds that an uninsured American is not going to receive treatment, period; thus, our country should reciprocate, regardless of how injured the invader is.”

If a non Mexican citizen needs medical care in Mexico he or she pays up front in cash the estimated cost. Additional costs are collected as soon as possible or upon release. Even if the patient is insured, the ambulance if needed must be paid in cash before they’ll take the patient to the hospital.

Posted by at 12:24 PM on November 2


“An illegal who is pregnant will go to the emergency room and have her anchor baby at tax-payer expense, never paying a penny to her costs. “

The illegal also gets free pre-natal care at the numerous free for illegals clinics all over California. She is also supplied with WIC coupons for pregnant Mothers. Meanwhile, American Mothers are working as long as possible and taking short maternity leaves to pay the taxes that support free medical care and food for the pregnant illegal.

It costs the illegal nothing, medi-cal reimburses the hospital about 1,000 to 2,000 dollars depending on complications such as a ceasearan and American parents and their insurance companies pay $12,000 to $14,000 to have a child.

Posted by Medical billing clerk at 12:30 PM on November 2


If nothing else, this story eloquently explains WHY most Americans despise Mexicans for being nothing less than a race of PARASITES AND THIEVES! Rest assured, illegal immigration and the attendant cost to American taxpayers will be a key issue in the 2008 elections.

Posted by Fed Up at 12:59 PM on November 2


My name is Enissa.I am of hispanic descent. I am 16 years old and I currently attend Franklin High School and I am writing an informational article portraying your culture.I am extremely interested in your beliefs and things of that nature. I think your culture is one of the most misunderstood of society. However, I wonder why you consider yourselves the most deserving citizens of this country, when the fact is we all came from different countries. We are all immigrants, whether we, or our ancestors immigrated legally or illegally. The true american citizens are native americans, being that they were here before us. I have the upmost respect for all religions and cultures. With this being said, I hope to hear back from someone viewing this website, or from the website, soon.
Sincerely,

Enissa

Posted by Enissa at 1:42 PM on November 2


have these ” liberal and traitorous ” doctors pick up the complete tab with their own money. They won’t be liberal too much longer.

Posted by Michigan patriot at 1:59 PM on November 2


Enissa
Yes, we all came from different countries but we came via two different routes: legally and illegally. The native americans that you wax so lyrical about were indeed here before us but they did not live in a country; we, europeans and their decendents turned a wilderness populated by waring savages into a country. If you look at the patterns of immigration(legal) to this country you will find three basic periods: the initial period of colony formation and continued British immigration which founded the country and established its form of government(this period was exclusively european and overwhelmingly British), next you will find a period of mid-19th century immigration, once again overwhelmingly european including Irish, Italians, etc, and after a period of nearly no immigration for 40 years you will find the last, completely new era of immigration based upon the 1965 immigration reform act sponsored by Teddy Kennedy and friends.

This last period of immigration differed completely from all past immigration to the US. It was overwhelmingly non-european, non-white, low skilled and was immigration into what had become a welfare state. Todays immigrants are less skilled, have less devotion to the US, are more likely to commit crimes and to be here illegally than any other group of immigrants in our history.

The pre-1965 immigration system which was know as the “national origins” system was passed around 1929 in response to the large wave of southern european immigration of the mid-19th century. Its conscious purpose was to maintain an ethnic and racial mix of immigrants which reflected the population of the US in the year 1900. It was heavily euro-centric and skills based. It also imposed strict limits on total numbers of immigrants — hence its success in creating a period of low immigration during which those who came near the end of the 19th century could assimilate, could become Americans.

Today there is no expectation that immigrants will assimilate. The destructive doctrine of multiculturalism has worked its magic and is producing massive numbers of low-skilled, low IQ, non-white immigrants who have no intention of ever assimilating. Remember, that in addition to the 20-30 million illegals in the country today we allow in at least 1 million legal immigrants per year. Such levels of immigration, both legal and illegal, have no historical parallel in our nation’s history. We are effectively commiting suicide as a nation through our immigration system, another world historical first for America.

Why do the european decendents of those who founded and built this country have no rights to maintain their identity in the country they built and currently sustain? Why is it fine to be for hispanic rights, black rights, gay rights, etc. but a horrible sin to be for white, european rights? The great whole in the multicultural approach to culture, aside from a destructive relativism in which cannibals are considered ethically equivalent to modern europeans, is the one which should be there but isn’t for whites. Every one else is protected, has rights and is expected to be proud of his/her ethnic and racial heritage, everyone except whites. It is impossible to have it both ways logically although practically that is what we have — -one standard for minorities and a very different one for whites who happen to be a very small minority of the world’s population.

Have you ever stoped to ask yourself why is it that non-whites everywhere always want to come to countries that were built by whites and in which whites are a majority? No white is going to try to illegally or legally immigrate into Zimbabwe for instance. Most non-white nations do not allow any immigration; only white, european countries allow non-white immigration. How have these countries been thanked for pursuing this selfless policy? They have been flooded with criminals, individuals who live off of the tax payers, they have seen their country destroyed in many places and their culture ridiculed and their enviornment debased.

Remember to consider your words carefully when discussing this topic. To talk about the native americans being here before us and therfore having a “right” to the land which europeans took by force is rather sloppy thinking. The native americans had a right to the land only insofaras they could claim title to it and defend it by force. There are no extraterrestrial rights out there that made the land theirs. They never did and never would have created a country in the sense that we use that term so any talk of its being their country before the advent of whites is a serious linguistic and logical error.

Posted by at 4:13 PM on November 2


“It’s part of our ethic to continue to provide this care no matter what.”

A logical conclusion, for those who believe basic necessities are a right.

Anyone here willing to deny that basic necessities are a human right?

Posted by uncle screwge at 4:57 PM on November 2


Posted by at 4:13 PM on November 2 and Enissa

Thanks for taking the time to write what you did. I hope many readers see your post.

I am finishing a book about the 50 battles that most changed world history. A couple of points I gleaned from this book are:

1. People never just “immigrated” somewhere. Throughout all of history, the only way large groups of peoples moved from one area to another was by superior force.

What we are allowing today in our society with mass immigration of foreigners is unprecedented in history.

2. It is amazing the small numbers of people involved in some very pivotal events - events that we still feel the effects of today. For instance, only a few thousand Christians defended Constantinople against tens of thousands of Muslim Turks in 1453. The Christians fought bravely and killed many times their number, but lost. The fall of Constantinople (Istanbul today) has been the means of a Muslim foothold in Europe.

I’d love to take it back! Why not? If we Westerners ever got our act together again, perhaps we could. Who says that the way the borders are drawn today is the way they should be for all time? The rules that applied 3000, 2000, 1000 years ago will apply 1000 years in the future - the stronger culture will expand if it desires to do so.

What we lack is desire.

Also, Enissa, the fall of Mexico to Cortes is in the book. You should be glad Cortes was successful. The Aztec society was brutal with child sacrifice and cannibalism.

Posted by Robin Hood at 6:08 PM on November 2


Enissa, one more point about the fall of Constantinople.

Notice that the city fell in 1453 - not much before the discovery of America by Columbus in 1492.

Why don’t we hear a cry from anyone about the return of Constantinople to it’s “indigenous” people? Everyone seems to accept that the Turks own what is now Turkey, why not accept that Americans, not Mexicans or Indians, own what is now America?

In fact, couldn’t an argument be made that what Americans developed America into gives them far more claim to this continent than a compariable claim the Turks could make for what they have done with Turkey - with more time to do it in I might add.

Posted by Robin Hood at 7:08 PM on November 2


“What we are allowing today in our society with mass immigration of foreigners is unprecedented in history”

What “we”? Don’t the overwhelming majority of Whites want this stopped?

Posted by at 7:21 PM on November 2


Dear Enissa,
My grandparents came to America because Stalinists were slaughtering millions and millions of people. My grandfather was forbidden to teach school to children in their native language under pain of death. My grandfather and the children built a secret compartment under the floorboards where they could hide their school books, in case Stalin’s soldiers would inspect — and they did inspect — the schoolhouse.

I had a great uncle who was drawn and quartered. I can’t imagine how horrible a way this would be to die. A cousin and her family escaped from their burning house wearing nothing but nightclothes, running from people shooting at them. They escaped to a displaced persons camp in another country, and they waited in line to become legal Americans. I had many other relatives who escaped under pain of death from the Stalinists and the Nazis.

DESPITE this, Enissa, my grandparents and all my other relatives waited their turn in line to become legal Americans. They couldn’t just walk over; they had to scrimp and save, and do without, in order to live in freedom. And they did.

They had skills and talents (my grandfather had a useful doctorate degree and spoke six languages; my uncle was an economist, to name two representative examples). They loved this country so very much; their children fought in wars, and, despite the physical pain of being hurt, they were so happy to be Americans.

Today, when someone asks me about my nationality, I tell them, “I am an American.” No hyphen this or that. American. Lover of freedom and of liberty. Every morning when I wake up, I thank God for letting me be an American. Then, I get out of bed and hope that I am the kind of American that my grandparents, who fought so hard for the privledge to come to this country, would want me to be.

It’s called character. Love of country. Love of freedom and of life.

Posted by at 9:28 PM on November 2


Don’t forget, the LEGAL immigrants of the 19th and early 20th century were screened for diseases. If you were sick, you did not get in, and when you did get in, you were listed according to origin, your trade, and where you were going. But if you were sick, you were sent back. Families WERE split up.

THAT is one of the biggest battles we fight now, and there is no money to take care of those of us whose families have been here for well over 100 years! All of my forebearers have been here that long, but I haven’t had health insurance for many years now. I just cannot afford it, at age 50. And yet every paycheck I get is raided to pay for illegals. The richest man in the world is a Mexican, Carlos Slim. The illegal Mexicans should look to him, not to the great, great grandchildren of the men and women who built THIS country. Please leave and go build your OWN country. Please, so I can afford insurance for the TB I will probably catch, breathing the air from the same “free clinic” that I am forced to share with illegals.

Posted by at 11:26 PM on November 2


We are all immigrants, whether we, or our ancestors immigrated legally or illegally.

Posted by Enissa at 1:42 PM on November 2


No, Enissa, we are not. I, for one, am a fourth-generation American. My ancestors, of German, Swedish, and English descent, settled in Minnesota and Wisconsin in the late 19th Century, and grew crops in the rich Midwestern soil, and became AMERICANS. My grandparents, on both sides of my family, spoke perfect English and thought of themselves as Americans first.

Posted by Old Victorian at 11:51 PM on November 2


Posted by at 7:21 PM on November 2

Unfortunately it is still a “we.”

We, the whites of this country, are allowing this travesty to happen. Some seem to be waking up. But does anyone here really believe that our “awakening” will result in a reversal of the trends - an explusion of the foreigners that are here, born, naturalized or otherwise?

Posted by Robin Hood at 10:11 AM on November 3


Enissa: Americans of Northern European descent ARE the most deserving people. Practically everything you use to make your life easier: cars, planes, trains, computers, rapid communication, appliances, clothes, shoes, lights, medicine, modern buildings, pavement, pharmeceuticals, HOSPITALS, government, and the list goes on and on, was invented by those of Northern European ancestry. Our people not only invented these things, but we built and paid for the developement of these things. Every hospital, road, welfare office, school, and library that you take advantage of was built and paid for by primarily by the White race. Why shouldn’t we feel ‘deserving’.

Look around America and your little world and list one thing of importance that any non-white race invented.

Besides, there is archeological and anthropological evidence that Whites were here before or at the same time as the very first Amerinds who emigrated out of Asia.

Even the people who built the pyramids in Mexico and South America were Whites. Your own ancient legends tell stories of White people who came from across the seas. They were worshipped by the indigneous peoples. They are described as being kind and generous and technologically advanced. These people were not the conquistadors, but were in the southern hemispere several thousand years ago.

This all sounds quite arrogant, but you asked why Whites feel they are more deserving than other races. You have your answer.

Posted by at 2:20 PM on November 3


Re: Uncle Screwege’s “basic necessities being a
human right:” — Says who???and why?????and provided by whom?????????

There is not one citizen of the US denying any
immigrant life’s basic necessities. We ARE DENYING that we have a responsibility to provide these basic necessities as a gift to uninvited invaders to our country and who then demand

such charity. Except for the welfare population, who seem to have the same idea about

basic necessities, the remainder of us take care

of our own basic necessities. Let them do the

same.

Posted by Sra. Indignada at 4:56 PM on November 3


>>>We are all immigrants, whether we, or our ancestors immigrated legally or illegally.

Posted by Enissa at 1:42 PM on November 2

But with ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE: Our ancestors did not sneak in through the back door when no one was looking. OUR ANCESTORS were not living off the largesse of the American government (all expenses — medical care, education, food stamps and welfare checks — paid for by American taxpayers).

OUR ANCESTORS WERE NOT THIEVES, SEXUAL PREDATORS, RAPISTS OR CHILD MOLESTERS. Sure, some crime did come with them. But proportionately the criminal element among our White European immigrants were a vastly SMALLER PERCENTAGE than the criminals among the Hispanic immigrants.

Maybe this poster has shut her eyes, her mind to the news. If she would read, could understand what she hears on the news, perhaps she’d think twice before spouting the nonsense in her above post.


Posted by Fed Up at 7:15 PM on November 3


Enissa, if you are indeed a real teenage girl I have a question for you. It is the sort of thing you are wasting your time on in your school social studies classes.

I’ll put it fiction terms. Did you ever read or see the Lord of the Rings books and movies?

Once upon a time long ago in Hobbit land lived different groups of people, the hobbits, the elves, mortal men, wizards, orcs and dwarves. Hobbit land was ruled by evil black robed wizards called Judges and their helpers, evil EEOC SPLC ADL orcs.


There was a law that every resident of the land had to go to university for at least 4 years. The cost of the university was $20,000 for tuition and $10,000 for living expenses, $30,000 per year or $120.000 for 4 years.

The different groups paid different tutition. The hobbits paid no tuition, got free room and board in the dorms and generous scholarships to pay for their cars, books, entertainment etc simply because they were hobbits.

The elves too got scholarships, but they generally paid maybe $5,000 per year instead of $30,000 per year, or $20,000 for 4 years for no other reason than they were elves.

The dwarves also got full scholarships like the hobbits simply because they were dwarves.

But the mortal men had to pay the full $30,000 per year, even if their parents only earned $30,000 per year or even less. They had to pay full tuition only because they were mortal men. So where did the mortal men get the money to pay for university?

Why the generous government of Hobbit land lent them the money. The generous government graciously arranged that when the mortal men finished university at age 22 they had a debt of $120,000 at 7 per cent interest plus thousands of dollars in various loan fees.

What is most interesting about this arrangement, is that the only students who paid the cost of the university were the mortal men. After all, when most of the students go to university for free, somebody has to pay the tuition.

And so it fell to the mortal men of Hobbit land to pay for everybody at the university. Mortal men also paid the salaries of the evil Orc professors who hated the mortal men and taught that all mortal men should be killed because they were mortal men.

When they graduated, the mortal men had to start paying off their loans of $120,000 with interest and huge administrative and collection fees added because they were mortal men. Obviously they had to get jobs to pay off the student loans.

But the evil black robed wizard Sauron, head of the evil black robed wizard Judiciary that ruled Hobbit land made a law forbidding anyone from hiring mortal men for a job. Yes indeed, it was against the law for mortal men to work. And of course the evil wizard Sauron and the other Judges had many EEOC SPLC orcs to see to it that no mortal men could work.

For your homework write a 3 page paper of at least one thousand words on one of these topics.

(1) Do you think Hobbit land treated all its people in a fair and equitable manner.

(2) Why do you think that the dwarves, hobbits, and elves were so favored by the evil black robed wizards and their running dogs the EEOC orcs?

(3) Pretend you are a running dog orc assistant to the evil black robed wizard Sauron and justify the treatment of the mortal men of Hobbit land.

(4) Pretend you are a mortal man who wants to get a job and finds that every employer in the land has several running dog orcs watching to sure that the employer does not hire mortal men. How do you feel abut this?

(5) Pretend you are an evil orc professor and create a lesson justifying the killing of all mortal men, women and children because they are mortal men. How would this be accomplished? Who would do the actual killing?

Posted by margaret at 8:49 PM on November 3


I’m confused. All I read, see and hear is liberals and hispanics telling us white poeple how America is full of anti-hispanic horrible Anglos who exploit and mistreat hispanics and that we do not appreciate them, do enough for them, etc…Nothing but mean, nasty stuff. If that is the case, why can’t we act that way and boot these injured illegals out ASAP and make some hospital in Mexico take care of them? You know why? It is because we are nice guys. Well, that is great, but remember that nice guys finish last.

Posted by at 10:47 AM on November 5



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