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Seattle Schools Warn Staff About Thanksgiving ‘Mourning’

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Eric Wilkinson, KING5 News (Seattle), November 14, 2007

A letter from the Seattle School District is raising some eyebrows about Thanksgiving and how it should be handled in the classroom.

The letter tells school district staff that the holiday is seen by many Native Americans as a “time of mourning.”

{snip}

For the past three years, the Seattle School District has sent a letter to teachers and staff, telling them “Thanksgiving can be a difficult time for many native students.”

This year’s letter references a Native American historical website that outlines what it calls myths about Thanksgiving.

Myth number 11 — Thanksgiving is a happy time.

That’s much more of a reality to parents we spoke to.

“I don’t think that’s a myth at all. I think anything you are thankful for is great,” said parent D.D. Boutwell.

The letter also asks teachers to understand that Thanksgiving is a “time of mourning” for many Indian people and a “reminder of 500 years of betrayal.”

Some parents say it’s political correctness gone too far.

“I think it gets to be silly,” said parent Deb Bush.

{snip}

Local Native American leaders add that not everyone in their community sees Thanksgiving negatively, but there is still plenty of hurt that can only be healed by a deeper understanding of our history.

{snip}

About 1,200 Native American students from 100 tribes are enrolled in Seattle schools.

Original article

(Posted on November 16, 2007)


Deconstructing the Myths of "The First Thanksgiving"

Judy Dow (Abenaki) and Beverly Slapin, oyate.org, June 12, 2006

What is it about the story of "The First Thanksgiving" that makes it essential to be taught in virtually every grade from preschool through high school? What is it about the story that is so seductive? Why has it become an annual elementary school tradition to hold Thanksgiving pageants, with young children dressing up in paper-bag costumes and feather-duster headdresses and marching around the schoolyard? Why is it seen as necessary for fake "pilgrims" and fake "Indians" (portrayed by real children, many of whom are Indian) to sit down every year to a fake feast, acting out fake scenarios and reciting fake dialogue about friendship? And why do teachers all over the country continue (for the most part, unknowingly) to perpetuate this myth year after year after year?

Is it because as Americans we have a deep need to believe that the soil we live on and the country on which it is based was founded on integrity and cooperation? This belief would help contradict any feelings of guilt that could haunt us when we look at our role in more recent history in dealing with other indigenous peoples in other countries. If we dare to give up the "myth" we may have to take responsibility for our actions both concerning indigenous peoples of this land as well as those brought to this land in violation of everything that makes us human. The realization of these truths untold might crumble the foundation of what many believe is a true democracy. As good people, can we be strong enough to learn the truths of our collective past? Can we learn from our mistakes? This would be our hope.

We offer these myths and facts to assist students, parents and teachers in thinking critically about this holiday, and deconstructing what we have been taught about the history of this continent and the world. (Note: We have based our "fact" sections in large part on the research, both published and unpublished, that Abenaki scholar Margaret M. Bruchac developed in collaboration with the Wampanoag Indian Program at Plimoth Plantation. We thank Marge for her generosity. We thank Doris Seale and Lakota Harden for their support.)

Myth #1: "The First Thanksgiving" occurred in 1621.

Fact: No one knows when the "first" thanksgiving occurred. People have been giving thanks for as long as people have existed. Indigenous nations all over the world have celebrations of the harvest that come from very old traditions; for Native peoples, thanksgiving comes not once a year, but every day, for all the gifts of life. To refer to the harvest feast of 1621 as "The First Thanksgiving" disappears Indian peoples in the eyes of non-Native children.

Myth #2: The people who came across the ocean on the Mayflower were called Pilgrims.

{snip}

Myth #3: The colonists came seeking freedom of religion in a new land.

Fact: The colonists were not just innocent refugees from religious persecution. By 1620, hundreds of Native people had already been to England and back, most as captives; so the Plimoth colonists knew full well that the land they were settling on was inhabited. Nevertheless, their belief system taught them that any land that was "unimproved" was "wild" and theirs for the taking; that the people who lived there were roving heathens with no right to the land. Both the Separatists and Puritans were rigid fundamentalists who came here fully intending to take the land away from its Native inhabitants and establish a new nation, their "Holy Kingdom." The Plimoth colonists were never concerned with "freedom of religion" for anyone but themselves. (2)

Myth #4: When the "Pilgrims" landed, they first stepped foot on "Plymouth Rock."

{snip}

Myth #5: The Pilgrims found corn.

Fact: Just a few days after landing, a party of about 16 settlers led by Captain Myles Standish followed a Nauset trail and came upon an iron kettle and a cache of Indian corn buried in the sand. They made off with the corn and returned a few days later with reinforcements. This larger group "found" a larger store of corn, about ten bushels, and took it. They also "found" several graves, and, according to Mourt’s Relation, "brought sundry of the prettiest things away" from a child’s grave and then covered up the corpse. They also "found" two Indian dwellings and "some of the best things we took away with us." (5) There is no record that restitution was ever made for the stolen corn, and the Wampanoag did not soon forget the colonists’ ransacking of Indian graves. (6)

Myth #6: Samoset appeared out of nowhere, and along with Squanto became friends with the Pilgrims. Squanto helped the Pilgrims survive and joined them at "The First Thanksgiving."

Fact: Samoset, an eastern Abenaki chief, was the first to contact the Plimoth colonists. He was investigating the settlement to gather information and report to Massasoit, the head sachem in the Wampanoag territory. In his hand, Samoset carried two arrows: one blunt and one pointed. The question to the settlers was: are you friend or foe? Samoset brought Tisquantum (Squanto), one of the few survivors of the original Wampanoag village of Pawtuxet, to meet the English and keep an eye on them. Tisquantum had been taken captive by English captains several years earlier, and both he and Samoset spoke English. Tisquantum agreed to live among the colonists and serve as a translator. Massasoit also sent Hobbamock and his family to live near the colony to keep an eye on the settlement and also to watch Tisquantum, whom Massasoit did not trust. The Wampanoag oral tradition says that Massasoit ordered Tisquantum killed after he tried to stir up the English against the Wampanoag. Massasoit himself lost face after his years of dealing with the English only led to warfare and land grabs. Tisquantum is viewed by Wampanoag people as a traitor, for his scheming against other Native people for his own gain. Massasoit is viewed as a wise and generous leader whose affection for the English may have led him to be too tolerant of their ways. (7)

Myth #7: The Pilgrims invited the Indians to celebrate the First Thanksgiving.

Fact: According to oral accounts from the Wampanoag people, when the Native people nearby first heard the gunshots of the hunting colonists, they thought that the colonists were preparing for war and that Massasoit needed to be informed. When Massasoit showed up with 90 men and no women or children, it can be assumed that he was being cautious. When he saw there was a party going on, his men then went out and brought back five deer and lots of turkeys. (8)

In addition, both the Wampanoag and the English settlers were long familiar with harvest celebrations. Long before the Europeans set foot on these shores, Native peoples gave thanks every day for all the gifts of life, and held thanksgiving celebrations and giveaways at certain times of the year. The Europeans also had days of thanksgiving, marked by religious services. So the coming together of two peoples to share food and company was not entirely a foreign thing for either. But the visit that by all accounts lasted three days was most likely one of a series of political meetings to discuss and secure a military alliance. Neither side totally trusted the other: The Europeans considered the Wampanoag soulless heathens and instruments of the devil, and the Wampanoag had seen the Europeans steal their seed corn and rob their graves. In any event, neither the Wampanoag nor the Europeans referred to this feast/meeting as "Thanksgiving." (9)

Myth #8: The Pilgrims provided the food for their Indian friends.

Fact: It is known that when Massasoit showed up with 90 men and saw there was a party going on, they then went out and brought back five deer and lots of turkeys. Though the details of this event have become clouded in secular mythology, judging by the inability of the settlers to provide for themselves at this time and Edward Winslow’s letter of 1622 (10), it is most likely that Massasoit and his people provided most of the food for this "historic" meal. (11)

Myth #9: The Pilgrims and Indians feasted on turkey, potatoes, berries, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie, and popcorn.

{snip}

Myth #10: The Pilgrims and Indians became great friends.

Fact: A mere generation later, the balance of power had shifted so enormously and the theft of land by the European settlers had become so egregious that the Wampanoag were forced into battle. In 1637, English soldiers massacred some 700 Pequot men, women and children at Mystic Fort, burning many of them alive in their homes and shooting those who fled. The colony of Connecticut and Massachusetts Bay Colony observed a day of thanksgiving commemorating the massacre. By 1675, there were some 50,000 colonists in the place they had named "New England." That year, Metacom, a son of Massasoit, one of the first whose generosity had saved the lives of the starving settlers, led a rebellion against them. By the end of the conflict known as "King Philip’s War," most of the Indian peoples of the Northeast region had been either completely wiped out, sold into slavery, or had fled for safety into Canada. Shortly after Metacom’s death, Plimoth Colony declared a day of thanksgiving for the English victory over the Indians. (13)

Myth #11: Thanksgiving is a happy time.

Fact: For many Indian people, "Thanksgiving" is a time of mourning, of remembering how a gift of generosity was rewarded by theft of land and seed corn, extermination of many from disease and gun, and near total destruction of many more from forced assimilation. As currently celebrated in this country, "Thanksgiving" is a bitter reminder of 500 years of betrayal returned for friendship.

Notes

{snip}

[Editor’s Note: Readers are encouraged to see the footnotes provided by the author here.]

Original article

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Comments

But they’ll certainly take Thanksgiving and the day after, off from school. If it’s that horrible, then keep school open for those two days.

Posted by St. Louis CofCC Blogmeister at 6:23 PM on November 16


“(Note: We have based our “fact” sections in large part on the research, both published and unpublished, that Abenaki scholar Margaret M. Bruchac developed in collaboration with the Wampanoag Indian Program at Plimoth Plantation. We thank Marge for her generosity. We thank Doris Seale and Lakota Harden for their support.)”

Whoa! That’s rigorous big league scholarship.

Myth: North America was teaming with native cultures from coast to coast.

Fact: There is no arheological, anthropoligical or other truly scientific evidence that there has ever been more than two million native americans alive at any given time in history. That North American was an open wilderness is essentially fact. Consider how much land is still open in our country with 300 million people.

Posted by Civilized Neighbor at 6:40 PM on November 16


King County, Seattle’s county, “renamed” itself in honor of Martin Luther King from Rufus King recently and now has MLK’s face as their logo. Bunch of PC lunatics.

Posted by at 7:31 PM on November 16


The Marxists will not rest until they have turned every non-white in this country against us and destroyed every single one of our traditions.

Posted by sofita at 7:33 PM on November 16


What about the mournful feelings that come over Whites when we have to put up with Martin Luther King Day? Or some of us having to endure Cesar Chavez Day?

Posted by Schoolteacher at 7:40 PM on November 16


I think the Native americans should mourn the fact that so many Hispanics are immigrating to the U.S. The fact is the Wapanog indians still exist as a tribe.Just about all the tribes that have come in contact with the Spanish in the caribean and in mexico are gone with their culture.If anyone wants to talk about genocide of native americans they really did wipe out whole tribes in Argentina.

Posted by Tony Soprano at 7:49 PM on November 16


Every morning is ” stressful ” to any normal white child in a desegregated school since Brown vs topeka, where is the concern there for the last 53 years ? Their mental and physical well being are assaulted daily by envious, bigoted, hateful non-whites, usually not yellow ones.

Posted by Michigan patriot at 8:25 PM on November 16


I think the real problem the PC folks have with Thanksgiving is the “myth” that the Indians and whites sat down at the same table and got along just fine, and that the Indian brought half (or more) of the food.

If Thanksgiving commemorated the Pilgrims “thanks” for red meat to rape and slaughter, they would be happy enough to commemorate it. But a holiday of peaceful white men and peaceful Indians … no way.

Riley

Posted by Riley DeWiley at 8:34 PM on November 16



Myth #12:

Native Americans were a peace-loving people completely in tune with Mother Earth. Had the White man never interrupted their natural evolution, they would have surpassed everything the White man ever did.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 8:44 PM on November 16


If you go to the angrey anti-white racist Indian website of this filthy Native wannabee tribe you’ll see that those people must smoke a lot of grass up there. They are bitter to the bone. I like Native Indians and feel that Americans can be inspired by their stereotypical image of love for our land. It is their land and it is certainly my land. I treasure as they do and want to protect it as they did.

Posted by Elrey Jones at 8:51 PM on November 16


Give me a break! What total nonsense. Haven’t the Indians even read up or know about their own “Indian Laws” when it came to this land? There was NO genocide of the Indians. Most of the killing was by the Indians raiding the the “homesteads”…. Our ancestors didn’t go out looking for the Indians to rape, kill and maim! The truth needs to be shouted from the rooftops for once. I believe Amren has something on this site pertaining to the “noble” red man…..

Posted by at 9:03 PM on November 16


Guess what: No one cares. Seriously. Thanksgiving is a food/family thing, for almost all of us. Almost no one cares about the history behind it. Go ask ordinary people; they’ll tell you all about what food they’re serving, & who’s showing up at whose house. And, that’s about it.

I’m guessing most Native Americans don’t care either, but I could be wrong.

Posted by tabbycat at 9:35 PM on November 16


“The letter tells school district staff that the holiday is seen by many Native Americans as a ‘time of mourning.’”

I am so sick and tired of this utter nonsense!

Can’t celebrate Thanksgiving because some (not all mind you, only some) are “disturbed?”

Can’t celebrate Christmas, because some non-Christians and all Reds hate the birthday of Our Lord?

Can’t celebrate Easter for the same reasons, plus the PETA freaks get involved because bunnies might be abused?

Can’t celebrate Washington’s birthday because he owned slaves; and of course, to make room for the filthy Red revolutionary MLK’s holiday, the fool who freed the slaves,
Lincoln doesn’t have his birthday celebrated either?

Oh but we do get Kwanzaa and Ramadan PSAs shoved down our throats, just to make everyone feel “included?”

I say to the devil with it all; American holidays are my culture, my history, and my way of worship as they were up until about the 1980s. If anyone doesn’t like them, then get the hell out of this country and never come back!

Posted by John PM at 9:48 PM on November 16


What happened to the indians 250 years ago is what is happening to the white man now.

One big difference.

The indians did not invite the white man to take over, the white man took over by force.

The white man is now inviting and allowing the foreigners to their own detriment and their own demise.

Unbelievable

Posted by at 10:17 PM on November 16


What other people on this earth would sit idly by as their history, culture and celebrations are cynically “deconstructed” in this fashion? Whatever the technical, historical accuracy of the Thanksgiving tale may be, it is nakedly obvious what the point of this foolishness is - at at whom it is singularly directed. This white self-flagellation is more than a little tiresome by now…but still we abide it!

It is these public-school lesson-plans that need some serious deconstruction! What are the motives behind all this anti-white bigotry? Who is behind it and why?


Posted by HH at 10:25 PM on November 16


If anyone wants to talk about genocide of native americans they really did wipe out whole tribes in Argentina.

True, but still, tribes here in Argentina did not even have ONE city, they were all nomads, and there were not many of them. Most of them were expelled to neighbour countries (that is why Argentina es the whitest country in S. America and not the rest) but the rest yeah, they were wiped out, but somehow there are no mass-graves…

Posted by Last Survivors at 11:04 PM on November 16


But they’ll certainly take Thanksgiving and the day after, off from school. If it’s that horrible, then keep school open for those two days. Posted by St. Louis
— -

This is not how I feel about the MLK Holiday. I gladly work that day with pride and bragging rights as I snub this abomination of an individual known as Martin Luther King and his kin throughout our country. All the customers who come to my job also laugh about the holiday and display exuberance that they ARE working.

Funny how “we” think so differently then “they” do, which explains why our societies are great and theirs are not … something to do with pride and knowing we succeed, not with pampering and handouts, but with great ideas and hard work. More evidence as to “why” we must be segregated.

~Rande

Posted by Rande at 11:18 PM on November 16


Send these to Chief Wampum:

American Indian Myths

Indians and Buffalo


Look, as everybody knows in their sleep by now, every story ever posted on here (or anything that’s happened in the last 42+ years for that matter) has only one agenda in mind….to destroy Western Civilization and the straight white conservative Christian and Jewish males who created it.

We have written and we could write the same comments until we die (and probably will), but if you ONLY post here and don’t ALSO send your comments (copy/paste if you want) to the source, then you’re basically preaching to the choir. It’s nice to know you’re not alone, but that will never get new people to this site (and like-minded ones). I’m sure everybody traveled a different path to arrive at AmRen, but now that you’re here, it’s YOUR turn to make someone else aware.

I’ve been doing it since I can remember and I’m sure many of you have too, but I KNOW there are many who aren’t. Take 5 minutes and send ONE e-mail to TWO people (even anonymously, if you’re afraid of getting ‘Watson’d’).

Although it’s not working fast enough for my wishes, I notice as the years pass, there are many new posters on here. Remember, they’re thinking along the same lines as when YOU first got here. On the flip side, there are many long-time posters who don’t post anymore (and some that do)….possibly because after you’ve said it all, what’s left to say, except to repeat yourself 1,000 times. Hopefully there all still reading though. This ‘cause’ has not been (and is not) an ‘overnight’ thing. This has taken (and will take) decades (along the lines of the illegal immigration debate).

We can’t all be Jared Taylors or Tom Tancredos or [fill in a bunch of other names here]. Each person can only do what you feel comfortable doing. Just do SOMETHING - ANYTHING, no matter how small or insignificant you think it may be. If you get even ONE more person over here, you’ve done your share.

But if you do NOTHING…

Posted by Mike B. at 11:30 PM on November 16


“Myth #12:

Native Americans were a peace-loving people completely in tune with Mother Earth. Had the White man never interrupted their natural evolution, they would have surpassed everything the White man ever did.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 8:44 PM on November 16”

Myth #13: Losing a racial/cultural war has no consequences.

The Indians should get over this myth, and deal with their present reality. And we whites should get over this myth too. Losing a racial/cultural war does have consequences - severe consequences - and we should learn this before we lose.

Posted by CSinAL at 11:54 PM on November 16


I can’t blame the American Indians for feeling depressed on Thanksgiving. They should be depressed. 400 years ago they had the chance to wipe out a few feeble English colonies in North America and their leaders failed them. The results were both predictable and devastating.

I, personally, will be celebrating on Thanksgiving Day. My ancestors were among the people they helped. But I will also be mourning the failure of our leaders and fellow voters to learn the lessons from the Indians. Thanksgiving Day should stand not only as a day of celebration, but as a warning, too. In America, in Australia, and in Europe, we’re giving away our country without firing a shot.

Posted by Alan at 1:05 AM on November 17


The letter tells school district staff that the holiday is seen by many Native Americans as a “time of mourning.”

This is just unbelivable nonsense. The “native” (as if whites who were born here to American parents weren’t “native” enough) Americans indulge themselves with riches that they and their blood-thirsty ancestors would have never dreamt of, taking advantege of free ride 2,000 years ahead in the history of mankind, from the stone age to the comfort of Western civilization, complements of naive Americans that bet their retirement money in Indian cassinos, and yet they are going to “mourn”?

Let’s end Indians’ privileged status in the U.S. They are not only profiting undeservedly from it, but the better off they are the more dissatisfied and ungrateful they are.

How long will it take for us to learn our lesson?

Posted by A Reader at 2:53 AM on November 17


Native Americans were a peace-loving people completely in tune with Mother Earth. Had the White man never interrupted their natural evolution, they would have surpassed everything the White man ever did.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 8:44 PM on November 16

So, why did they wait so long with surpassing us?

Also, their being completely “in tune with Mother Earth” is a liberal fiction. They camped in one area until it was completely uliveable and then they moved elsewhere. The only reason why they didn’t completely wreck the ecosystem was their relative small number (relative to the size of the huge continent they roamed).

Posted by A Reader at 3:51 AM on November 17


The indians did not invite the white man to take over, the white man took over by force.

From what I know, the white man didn’t “take over” simply because the Indians didn’t own the land any more than the buffalo and other wild animals did. Furthermore, the Indians sold what wasn’t really theirs to the white man, laughing of white man’s naivette.

One must remember than when all that happened, America was a wild and totally undeveloped land that in hands of stone age roamers (Indians, that is) was worth next to nothing, and decidedly not more than the settlers paid to Indians for it. Almost entire today’s value of the land was a consequence of socio-economic development that whites brought with them to America.


Now, like a guy who sold a parcel when the land was cheap and wants it back together with all the improvements that the new owner built on it, Indians have second thoughts and want “their” continent back. Fat chance.

Posted by A Reader at 4:37 AM on November 17


For an interesting interpretation of the Thanksgiving Holiday read Rush Limbaugh’s take:

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1742553/posts

Posted by RaceandCountry at 7:23 AM on November 17


“There is no arheological, anthropoligical or other truly scientific evidence that there has ever been more than two million native americans alive at any given time in history. That North American was an open wilderness is essentially fact.”

The pre-PC estimate was 1 million. That sounds about right, 2,000 villages with 500 people would yield that, enough to cause a lot of trouble for a white settlement. This is about the same number of aborigines in the deserts of Australia. BTW, all the oldest skeletons found in the Americas are Caucasoid.

Posted by Godzilla Pimp at 9:04 AM on November 17


Sure the white Europeans did kill the natives and steal their land. That how it’s been done since the beginning of time and that’s how it will continue to be done. That’s how the Native American’s got the land in the first place, the strong killed off the weak. The white man didn’t invent the system, it’s called reality.

The real mistake made by the white man was leaving any of the original natives around to complain. When conquering a country it’s important to eliminate or assimilate the native population.

Posted by Daniel at 11:42 AM on November 17


Any white parent with any brains has pulled their kids out of public schools long ago.

Posted by at 1:08 PM on November 17


It happened a long time ago. Get over it. Stop trying to put guilt on us for something that we didn’t do!

Posted by at 2:21 PM on November 17


“Thanksgiving mourning.”

Does this mean they would rather still be freezing in tipis, routinely losing their wives in childbirth and their children to now-preventable vitamin-deficiency diseases, and being preyed upon by neighboring tribes?

Posted by Michael C. Scott at 2:51 PM on November 17


“…the MLK Holiday. I gladly work that day with pride and bragging rights as I snub this abomination of an individual known as Martin Luther King and his kin throughout our country.” (Posted by Rande at 11:18 PM on November 16).

Why do blacks need a special MLK Day, since they have every day as Nat Turner Day?

Posted by H. Dumpty at 6:54 PM on November 17


>>Also, their being completely “in tune with Mother Earth” is a liberal fiction. They camped in one area until it was completely uliveable and then they moved elsewhere. The only reason why they didn’t completely wreck the ecosystem was their relative small number (relative to the size of the huge continent they roamed).

Posted by A Reader at 3:51 AM on November 17

Yes, absolutely true. American Indians were responsible for literally countless extinctions on this continent. The megafauna that once roamed North America would and could still exist today were it not for them. One of their favorite hunting methods was to force entire herds of large animals, such as bison, over cliffs and then take the choice pieces of meat such as the tongues and leave the rest to the vultures. They would descend upon a body of water rich in fish and seine every single fish and frog they could find, leaving an empty hole. Early explorers such as Ferdinand von Roemer (a naturalist who explorer Texas) commented on the huge amount of waste among Indians. In some areas of Texas they wiped out the deer populations and it wasn’t until the 1900s, under careful conservation by whites, that they returned. This myth that they were spiritual ecologists, who were 100% efficient and used every part of every animal they killed while giving thanks to the Great Spirit for their bounty was just that-a total myth. They were also savagely cruel to women and the elderly. It is an indisputable fact that when times grew hard they would simply throw the elderly and sick out of the tribes. Many of these sick and elderly found their way into white settlements. They also fought incessant wars with each other. As one old Apache once wrote, when they were not fighting whites, Mexicans or other tribes the Apaches fought each other.

I do not hate American Indians by any means, and white Europeans have been responsible for their share of extinctions but when these tribes begin blaming palefaces for all of the problems in the world and assume a stance of racial superiority that is similar to that shared by black nationalists, then I draw the line.

Posted by Venom at 8:58 PM on November 17


I agree with St. Louis post. And they also seem to have to drown their sorrows by being the 1st ones in line for the free Thanksgiving day dinners that most communities have!!! When I lived in Houston they would show the crowds on the evening news and it was nothing but non-Whites as far as the eye could see getting all the free goodies, because free clothes, toys etc. were also givin out. They would go into the crowd to interview some of them and almost always it would have to be translated because they didn’t speak ENGLISH!! It would go like- - “we’re so glad to get this because it’s so hard raising a family of 8-6-10 on what we make!” These are the SAME ONES that seem to be able to send money to mexico every payday though!! My wife and I moved to the mid-west 3 yrs. ago after living in Houston for almost 30 yrs., so we no longer have to witness this spectacle.

Posted by Tom S at 9:43 PM on November 17


Note that historical claims come from the oral tradition of the tribes. If there is anything that lends itself to modification and distorition, both intended and unintended, it is the oral tradition. The old game of “telephone” proves this quickly, but an honest socialogical study proves it certainly. Personally, I have witnessed all my life how Amerinds distort history for their own convenience and make claims that have not even the slightest basis in reality. Latinos do the same thing. What is more, these claims and distortions are so obvious to anyone even a bit educated and experienced in forensics that these liars just look childish. But they are very clever and opportunistic about taking every political peg they can. But this is really a case of “baffling with B**&.” and making the untangling of their nonsense so laborious that they almost succeed in convincing some of the most naive. But a lot of whites have become naive.

Posted by Whiteplight at 9:45 PM on November 17


Does this mean they would rather still be freezing in tipis, routinely losing their wives in childbirth and their children to now-preventable vitamin-deficiency diseases, and being preyed upon by neighboring tribes?

Apparently, it does mean so. Why would you expect them to make, all of the sudden, a rational choice?

Posted by A Reader at 10:36 PM on November 17


Sure the white Europeans did kill the natives and steal their land.

That is a claim that is not supported by historic evidence.

Most of Indians died of contegeous diseases, a fate that the majority of Europe’s population faced few hudred before when Asians brought plagues to Europe.

Indians themselves, although often taking money for “their” land, did not believe in land ownership, so how could whites “steal” it from them?

Posted by A Reader at 10:43 PM on November 17


Our romantic idea that Indians roamed the plains on horseback needs some clarification. Although the horse originated in North America, it disappeared from the continent, went round the world and was reintroduced to this side of the world by the Spaniards. The Indians adapted to the horse and had a brief peak in their civilization because of it. Instead of being confined to river valleys with only dogs to use for labor, they could venture further afield to hunt and travel, because of the coming of the white man and his horse!

Posted by at 11:29 PM on November 17


I just looked at the website of the Orginization that this article came from. It is so full of undocumented complaints against whites, it is ridiculous. Just claim it and it becomes true. Check out the Not Recommened Reading List.

But we have little to fear from these people in the end. They are good at complaining, but they are not good at realism. And in fact, most of them from what I have seen, are grossly overwieght, lazy and filled with an impotent sense of entitlement, just because they are the ancestors of stone age occupiers of the vast land of North America. If they had been left alone on this continent, which was impossible, someone, perhaps the Chinese would eventually have arrived to overcome them and their stone age technology. Then, they would have the “yellows” or something to rage against. What they don’t realize is that the world is way ahead of them and no one is going to give them anything “back” - it is owned by Arabs and Chinese and French international corporations now, who are pretty removed from the source of their complaints.

What’s funny to me is the fact that they are once again using the Whiteman’s technology to spread their nonsensical views via a website on the internet.

Posted by Whiteplight at 12:32 AM on November 18


Very good post, Venom. Also, A Reader, a good post.

I am so sick of the romantizing of the Indians, among other “tribes” in our country. They were brutal to each other and were not “conservationists” as some like to claim. Where does this stuff come from anyway? Just like the black invention myths, we need to get rid of the Indian myths.

Posted by at 1:11 AM on November 18


Here’s an example of the handiwork that Mexicans and Indians are capable of when they get together, decide they don’t want the white man around and feel they have the upper hand as they did in Taos, New Mexico on January 19, 1847:

“With blood lust at a fever pitch the mob then caught James W. Leal, the District Attorney, and scalped him alive. They dragged him bleeding and screaming through the frozen streets for hours, all the while mocking him and pricking him with lances. Finally, the suffering man was thrown to one side in a ditch, barely alive but still screaming in agony. The mob soon left; shortly after, a compassionate Mexican walked up to poor Leal and shot him.”

From “Tom Tobin” by James E. Perkins (p. 53)

Posted by at 1:14 AM on November 18


Thanksgiving Day is just that! A day to give thanks… I’m a Native American, and it’s so frickin embarrassing to hear these other Native Americans call it a day of mourning. Quit feeling sorry for yourselves, it’s so stupid!

Posted by Survivor99 at 3:38 AM on November 18


Daniel wrote: When conquering a country it’s important to eliminate or assimilate the native population.

Which is exactly what the Mexicans are doing to the sections of the country that they’re invading, and what blacks have done to the cities they’ve taken over — with emphasis on the former action in both instances.

Posted by Strider at 5:41 AM on November 18


“The pre-PC estimate was 1 million. That sounds about right, 2,000 villages with 500 people would yield that, enough to cause a lot of trouble for a white settlement. This is about the same number of aborigines in the deserts of Australia. BTW, all the oldest skeletons found in the Americas are Caucasoid.”

Posted by Godzilla Pimp at 9:04 AM on November 17

The population of Natives in America may have been greater than 1 million at one time. Once a population begins interbreeding with certain other races their numbers can begin to diminish considerably. Look at all the caribbean islands, for example. There are no natives there.

Oh, that’s right. I’m sorry. ‘whites killed them all’.

wink. wink.

Posted by Mr. Pibb at 10:20 AM on November 18



The Native Americans should be celebrating Thanksgiving. They should be celebrating the fact that when they fought, they fought bravely and proudly. They should be celebrating the fact that, although their numbers are small, they still exist as a people. They should be celebrating their survival against extraordinary odds. They should be celebrating that they weren’t exterminated either deliberately or by consequence. They should be celebrating the fact that they are free to live as they want, on reservations where they can live as they choose or the freedom to leave and live anywhere in the US or world they want.

White people have been through wars and invasions but they don’t stop living and mourn the past forever. They recognize the suffering they endured but they move on; they remember the past, they don’t live it as a festering wound.

Native American ancestors would be shamed by the self-pity these Indians espouse today.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 10:57 AM on November 18


I lived and worked in Durant, Oklahoma, for several years. Durant is the National Capitol of the Choctaw Indian Nation. Other nations have their capitol nearby in Oklahoma. When it was Thanksgiving, I never saw any “mourning Indians”. They celebrated the holiday in the same way as non-Indians, with good food, friendship, football, deer hunting season, and Christmas shopping. Indians and non-Indians alike see the holiday as a good time for extended families to get together to visit and gossip, remember, and give thanks to the Almighty.

There is no shame to American history. There were many wars (large and small) and periods of hostility. But the American Indian was not a peaceful hippy, living in ecological harmony with nature’s friends, smoking dope and practicing holistic medicine. The American Indian was a warrior society, given to brutality, determination and a viciousness unknown to Europeans. Both peoples saw each other in the same way! The American Indian gave as much as he took and there were plenty of outrages during those hostilities to go around. But there was no shame.

That is why Thanksgiving is important to everyone. The wars between Europeans and American Indians are over and thanks be to God that the wars ended without one or the other being completed destroyed in the process. Yes, Thanksgiving is about a peace that was denied both sides for centuries, but we HAVE now. We have many reason to be thankful and Thanksgiving is the perfect time to enjoy it.

Posted by Don Reynolds at 12:22 PM on November 18


Survivor99…..Thank you for being rational. Now if you can get the rest of the Indians to realize this, then you will have helped your fellow man. Ask them if they would rather have the White man or the Black man or the Mexican man or the Yellow man to have landed on this land. Where would they be today if it was not the White man? Would they even be alive? David Yeagly, a Comanche, has said, thank God it was the White man who landed here and not the brown,black or yellow man. He said the Indian likes a good warrior and he gave credit to the White man for being a better warrior. That is respect, he said.

Posted by at 3:01 PM on November 18



“Note that historical claims come from the oral tradition of the tribes. If there is anything that lends itself to modification and distorition, both intended and unintended, it is the oral tradition. ” — - Whiteplight

………………………………………….

I note too that, while there are always two sides to every story (which is true enough), there is only one side presented here — the Indian side. It is very one-way.

Unlike the now-fashionable story of the benevolent, kindly Indians without whom the Pilgrims would have perished, I recall reading the story of the Plymouth Colony — oh, some 30 years ago, before the era of political correctness set in (and it was probably already an old book). The whites during that first freezing winter lost a great many of their number to disease and hunger. But they were so fearful about the intentions of the Indians that they dared not even bury their dead, because they could not afford to let the Indians know how many they had lost and how weakened they had become. If they did, they might have gone the way of that earlier Virginia colony [Roanoke] that simply vanished without a trace.

Posted by ghw at 3:54 PM on November 18


The entire situation can be summed up very easily: This entire country was so sparsely inhabited the indians were an almost insignificant population, and they saw the colonists as people to raid, rob, and persecute, which they did with reckless abandon. The indians many times pursued a treacherous, manipulative, scheming policy against the settlers, not the other way around, as Amren indicates in an article in the archives. And they did so, because of greed. The book “Scalp Dance” also is very revealing.

They wanted livestock, plus anything else they could steal, and they didn’t mind murdering women and children to get it, just as they had been doing to one another for many, many years before the white man arrived. The claim by the PC mental cases that murderous, tortuous actions by indians against whites was because their land was violated by whites is an absolute lie. As today, they wanted to steal what the whites had. Trespassing violations or land had nothing to do with their evil, deplorable actions.

Indian attacks, involving rape, torture, maiming, and killing, were answered by white settlers with unrestrained counter attacks on the killers responsible, and the murdererous leaches quickly discovered they were no match for whites, and they were pounded into almost extinction to the last tribal member. Only by the grace of the whites were the indians not exterminated, but were allowed their own ethnic enclaves.

Bottom line: Indians tried to decimate the white population to the last man, but got their butts literally trounced.

Now, as all non-whites do in America, they refuse to acknowledge their evil guilt and instead fall into a whining state of victimhood, blaming whites for their predicament, when true history unequivocally reveals it is they who were the real criminals and murderers.

Case closed.

Posted by Robert Kelly at 4:40 PM on November 18


Call me an ignorant Brit but I thought North American Indians numbered less than a million some 250 years ago and now they number around 4 million. Why? Western medicine and innoculations. Also, does anyone seriously think that less than a million stone/iron age people should have jurisdiction over huge tracts of the Earth’s surface? That’s just ridiculous. I believe American Indians own more land than the rest of private citizens put together (also ridiculous). Furthermore, contrary to popular myth, tribal life is no barrel of laughs. Life expectancy is very low, over 12% of tribal peoples die (and, according to the archaeologists, always have died) a violent death. Disease is a constant killer.

The world isn’t full of people struggling to get into primative tribes; it is full of primative people trying to get break into modern economies. For some strange reason, Eskimos do not live in igloos anymore. They seem to prefer houses with electricity and TV. They don’t hunt with spears but with rifles. They no longer use dog sleds but prefer the internal combustion engine.

What Indians and stupid liberals actually bemoan is not the loss of Indian culture but the loss of Indian power, an imaginary power since Indians had no united country, had no clue as the the size or shape of the land mass they occupied and lived in small tribes hostile to each other.

Well, Indians, I’m sorry we Europeans came and trebled your lifespan, quadrupled your numbers and turned the extravagantly large land mass you ‘owned’ into the most powerful country in the world. But believe me, if it had been anyone other than Europeans, my God you’d have something to complain about. The whole issue here is you pride. Well grow up and swallow it.

Posted by Eugene at 6:54 PM on November 18


Hi all, How rediculous, this kind of thing makes my skin crawl. I am a 52 year old person of American Indian background and me a my family always loved thanksgiving and still do. We not for one moment ever thought anything negative about it. And as for the Wampanoag so called Indians they are about 80% Black ancestary and would never be taken for an Indian on the street at all even with all the feathers on. The so called Indians in the north east USA are all about 80% to 90% Black with the rest being mostly white with maybe 1% Indian blood, ( FAKES ). The Indians in Maine are of true Indian Blood mixed with White however. Real Indians don’t even except the Wampanoag as Indians at all but as Blacks wich is what they are.

Posted by JOEMIXEDBLOODINDIAN at 10:38 AM on November 19


“I thought North American Indians numbered less than a million some 250 years ago and now they number around 4 million.
Why? Western medicine and innoculations.” — Eugene

******************

Also, I can’t cite the statistics, but I read somewhere that they have the highest birth rate (rate of increase) of any racial group in the US. Is that genocide?

And thanks to Joe for his enlightening comments about the Wampanoag. I should have guessed as much.

Posted by voter at 7:57 PM on November 19


“Call me an ignorant Brit but I thought North American Indians numbered less than a million some 250 years ago and now they number around 4 million. Why? Western medicine and inoculations”


You are extremely ignorant, shortsighted and bigoted Eugene. Western medicine didn’t eradicate small pox from the globe. No. This is a deadly and dangerous myth. One that could potentially, if allowed to propagate, leave non-westerners, non-whites, thinking less of themselves.

This false assertion you bring up is not only untrue, your post borders on being an example of this dangerous racism.

The reality is, Westerners - spread small pox all across the globe eradicating millions of non-whites.

There.

Posted by Dinosaur Hatchling at 11:36 PM on November 19


Posted by Dinosaur Hatchling at 11:36 PM on November 19

Hilarious post, Dinosaur!!!! You got me for a moment there: I thought you were one of those delusional ignorant crazy hate-whitey bigots. But then I realized it was just satire. But it just goes to show how nutty some insane ignorant leftist haters have become, that one is not always sure if something is parody or for real. But the way things are going with dull loud ignorance and chants replacing considered thought and reason and knowlege, I’d not be surprise if someday soon there are nuts who would really spout the same babblings as your satirical comment!

Posted by at 12:51 AM on November 21


“For the past three years, the Seattle School District has sent a letter to teachers and staff, telling them “Thanksgiving can be a difficult time for many native students.”

What a bunch of pathetic, bleeding-heart, manic mopes. The head of the Seattle School District should be isolated in a detention room to keep his/her delusions from further depressing people.

Posted by Gary at 4:47 PM on November 23


The first Thanksgiving was held on the East coast, ergo these West coast bleeding hearts and whiners haven’t a leg to stand on…

Posted by at 1:58 PM on November 26


As a “quarter-breed blanket-head”, I believe one should celebrate the cold months with friends and family members.

Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:46 PM on November 27



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