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|More Phantom Racism? (Oct. 2000)|
|New York (Atro)city (Feb. 1996)|
|Racism Everywhere (Aug. 2000)|
|Chicago Still Stewing (Sep. 2001)|
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Fisk University is in such dire financial straits that it is considering selling off part of its valuable art collection. The Nashville, Tenn., school is one of the nation’s 103 historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs), and its money problems raise an obvious question: Half a century after Brown v. Board of Education, should we still support an institution of higher education that is less than 1% white?
But overwhelmingly white institutions are also eager for a significant black presence. If all educational doors are so wide open to black students and professors, should we really hope that schools such as Fisk survive? At the height of the civil-rights movement, some thoughtful observers expressed grave doubts. Research by Christopher Jencks and David Riesman concluded that these “by-products of the Southern caste system” were usually an “ill-financed, ill-staffed caricature of white higher education.” The “great majority [stood] near the end of the academic procession in terms of student aptitudes, faculty competence, and intellectual ferment.” And it seemed self-evident that the demise of Jim Crow would make these schools even weaker by exposing them to new competition. Their best students and teachers would have choices denied earlier generations of African-Americans, and few would choose even the better HBCUs like Howard over Harvard.
Perhaps they continue to thrive because they do an excellent job of making sure their students actually get a diploma. Getting into college is not the great problem for blacks in higher education today; staying and graduating is. The dropout rate at the HBCUs is high, but considerably lower than at the typical majority-white school. Although only a 10th of all African-Americans attend HBCUs, they award over a fifth of all bachelor’s degrees earned by blacks. And yet they do not attract students from unusually affluent and educated homes.
Admittedly, their academic standards may still be relatively low. And it may still be the case, as Messrs. Jencks and Riesman wrote, that they tend to “graduate anyone who perseveres.” But academic expectations are also low elsewhere, and black students still drop out in alarmingly large numbers.
The HBCUs have an advantage over even the selective traditionally white colleges: There is no mismatch between black student qualifications and the academic demands of the schools. No students are preferentially admitted — given a break in a system of racial double standards. And once they enroll at an HBCU, they can feel free to major in more difficult subjects, knowing that they will not be unprepared for the coursework.
In fact, a remarkable 40% of all African-Americans with a bachelor’s degree in the physical sciences, and 38% of those who majored in math or the biological sciences, attended HBCUs. Conversely, almost no students at HBCUs gravitate to black studies, gender studies and the like. Moreover, among blacks who earned a Ph.D. in the late 1990s, 31% had done their undergraduate work at HBCUs. Messrs. Jencks and Riesman, writing in the ’60s, complained that the schools were “traditional,” rather than “progressive” and “harked back to an earlier period of white academic history.” But their academic conservatism may be the secret to their success.
An impressive recent study by the economists Roland Fryer and Michael Greenstone suggests that HBCUs are not what they used to be. In the 1970s, compared with black students at other institutions, students at HBCUs went on to jobs that paid significantly higher wages. By the 1990s that labor-market advantage had disappeared. There was no “brain drain” into better white schools; the measurable academic credentials of black students at HBCUs relative to those at largely white schools had not changed. So what happened?
It is possible that the Fryer and Greenstone finding may reflect the special historical circumstances of the 1970s, when employers first came under pressure to hire a more racially diverse work force and found it most efficient to comply with affirmative-action mandates by recruiting at schools in which most job applicants would be African-American. By the 1990s these pressures may have eased, or employers may have developed other strategies for dealing with them.
Whatever the true story (and the inadequacies of the data make a definitive judgment difficult), the evidence does not indicate that HBCUs are “the best” schools for African-Americans across the board, as some enthusiasts claim. But they do seem to meet a real need, serving their students well in important respects.
(Posted on December 7, 2007)
This article admits why HBCs have a relatively high graduation rates: Because of their lower standards.
Posted by St. Louis CofCC Blogmeister at 5:54 PM on December 7
The true role of Historically Black colleges…?
Doesn’t that depend on what day of the week it is? They have a little outcome-wheel in the basement with a pointer on it. One for each day of the week. They give it a spin before talking with reporters.
Posted by at 6:20 PM on December 7
What a rosy puff-piece by Abigail and Stephan Thernstrom of the WSJ. . . If Journalism doesn’t work out for them they should consider sales or advertising. I hear Geico insurance is looking for help.
Posted by at 6:30 PM on December 7
Abigail Thernstrom has a knack for writing in a way that allows her to slip past the Thought Police censors, but still reveal some truths about blacks in America. She does it by always leading to conclusions that are basically neutral as far as race realism vs. leftist cultural Marxism is concerned. This article is another example.
Posted by Reader-1 at 7:26 PM on December 7
These colleges could be the foundation of a return to a healthy system of racial segregation. So what if their grads aren’t that smart, if they are only going to be teaching their own people? Are the doctors second rate? How good do they have to be, when their real task will be sewing up knife wounds? How good an architect do you have to be to design concrete block three bedroom houses?
Posted by Schoolteacher at 8:04 PM on December 7
“Admittedly, their academic standards may still be relatively low.”
No surprise here.
And it may still be the case, as Messrs. Jencks and Riesman wrote, that they tend to “graduate anyone who perseveres.”
So it’s a diploma mill?
But academic expectations are also low elsewhere, and black students still drop out in alarmingly large numbers.
This was a bombshell. An admission that White Universities and Colleges don’t expect much from blacks either.
I say that should keep supporting these institutions. Sure, maybe a diploma from these institutions is close to worthless but if they go to a White Institution aka affirmative action, it would be just the same. Besides, being in an HBCU doesn’t add to the quota burden on our institutions.
Posted by at 8:08 PM on December 7
A friend of my son, who is white, attended Morgan State in Baltimore; a ‘black college’, on a minority scholarship. If you can stomach spending four years with the rest of the student body, it’s a cheap way to a degree. I understand that all HBCU’s must have a specific number of ‘minority’ scholarships available for whites, and other non-blacks.
Turnabout is sometimes fair-play.
Posted by Ray Cist at 8:32 PM on December 7
Soon these free loading black so called “students” will bankrupt every college in the land….and bankrupt the middle class working man….between them and the forign students the whites don’t stand a chance!!
Posted by lydia at 8:49 PM on December 7
I think that HBCU’s are a good thing and if we simply require that all students compete against each other on an equal and blind system they will flourish because they can tailor their programs for their historically designated student body, now because the body of their students will have failed to enter more mainstream schools they will naturally compete to suceed and HBCU’s will be able to raise their standards to offer a quality education with a curricullum geared to their needs.
Posted by pat at 9:04 PM on December 7
“I think that HBCU’s are a good thing and if we simply require that all students compete against each other on an equal and blind system they will flourish because they can tailor their programs for their historically designated student body, now because the body of their students will have failed to enter more mainstream schools they will naturally compete to suceed and HBCU’s will be able to raise their standards to offer a quality education with a curricullum geared to their needs.”
Since most of the students are black, they are competing on an equal and blind system. Yes, I would imagine most of them would get rejected from a real college or university because of their poor grades and college entrance scores. I also agree that HBCUs can create easy afrocentric junk classes that students should be able to pass. Although judging from dropout rates they should only be required to show up and sign their name to pass. I don’t see how this approach will raise standards though. Enlighten me.
Posted by at 10:30 PM on December 7
There was a time when we were smart enough to realize that a college education was not appropriate for every person. Not all people have the brain power and the self discipline to really make use of a college education. Since a college education has become the expected norm for every person now, the only way to make that happen is to dilute the curriculum of the colleges to the point where those incapable of a true college education can still pass the courses and get the degree. Along the way, colleges have become businesses, rather than educational institutions.
The HBCUs simply represent the bottom end of this process. They provide a means for handing out paper certificates to those black folk who are willing to go play around for four years and have a good time while learning next to nothing. They make almost no academic demands whatsoever on their students. Their curricula are often far below that of the typical white high school, but, hey, it is still a “college degree.” Whoopee!! The graduate is often still a functional illiterate, but he is now a college graduate, and that is what counts (you do believe that, don’t you?)
It is gigantic fraud perpetrated society to continue this, but everyone seems to be pleased with it so we dare not stop such a happy fraud. If we as a society had any self discipline, we would eliminate about 2/3 of the available college openings in this country so that they would go to those who were really interested and qualified only. We could then send these other young people for appropriate training in trades and crafts where they belong. Our country would be much better off for it if we would do this.
Posted by at 11:41 PM on December 7
Jared Taylor himself could almost have been the author of the last paragraph:
“In a free society, many private and public institutions will have a distinctive profile. Group clustering is not necessarily unhealthy; indeed, it’s an inescapable feature of a multiethnic nation. No one worries that there are “too many” Jews at Yeshiva and Brandeis, “too many” Catholics at Notre Dame and Holy Cross, “too many” Mormons at Brigham Young. And so it should be with Howard, Fisk and Mississippi Valley State. That’s what democratic pluralism means.”
(If you didn’t know, “democratic pluralism” is a popular term for “consociationalist”, according to a result of my Google search)
Posted by H. Dumpty at 1:18 AM on December 8
Having had some experience w/black colleges, I can tell you, that their standards are not just low, they are virtually non-existent, in some cases attending classes is not a requirement, I have known atheletes from black colleges tha could not find a classroom after 4 yrs.
Posted by abc at 5:59 AM on December 8
Remember those old photos showing a White water fountain next to one labelled Colored? How are the HBCU’s any different?
Posted by bigSteve at 7:49 AM on December 8
I thought that Black history taught about all the great black intellects and contributions that blacks made to our lives.I thought that they came up with the math to build pyramids.Did Whitey steal their formulas.We are told of the rich cultural experience they bring to our society.Wow with all this brain power and they still fail.All the great education they got from busing to the white schools.Why didn’t they take this education back to the black schools?Somehow Whites will be blamed again.
Posted by THE MAN at 11:06 AM on December 8
The True Role Of Black Colleges seems to be: (1) A way to beg for money from weak spined whites (a mind is a terrible thing to waste, they say, my question is WHAT MIND) (2) A way to give a college diploma to an individual who can only think at a 8th. grade level. (3) The paperwork needed to land that cushie Govt. Job where you get top pay for low level production.
Posted by Bozko at 11:08 AM on December 8
I blame “Liberals”
Freedom of association, as spelled out by First Amendment, seems to imply that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having HBCUs. They deserve about as much support as anyone else does. Anti-segregation laws were supposed to end non-voluntary segregation, and that seemed to be congruent with freedom of association, too. It’s the current policy that de facto prohibits voluntary segregation, at least some instances of it, that is both wrong and unconstitutional. Add to it an obviously double standard in these matters, and the entire cause becomes severely damaging to America, with results of that damage being visible with a naked eye (by anyone who has not been brainwashed and thoroughly indoctrinated by the “education” authority, that is).
As much as we can, and should, return illegals (mostly Mexicans) and their American born kids to their native countries, blacks are inseparable part of this nation and the social contract that we call the Constitution, no matter what the consequences are, and are entitled to help if they need it. The problem is that “Liberal” agitators who push the “one shoe fits all” model of “education” and other equally absurd propositions stir blacks’ discontent and teach them hating whites and America as we know it. I see “Liberal” activism in this matter as the main cause of today’s black-white tensions in the U.S.
However, I think the problem is manageable, on long run.
First, deport the majority of “Liberal” ideologues to China, Mexico, or any other country with at least 50% of pro-Marxist population, no matter where were they born.
Second, send (voluntarily or otherwise) the majority of illegals to their countries of origin.
Third, begin teaching in schools that there are significant differences between individuals, and that there is nothing wrong with it. Students should be taught that a person who has high IQ, and is ethical and persistent is likely to land on a well paying job while person who lacks the above characteristics is not, ant that is OK, but it would be immoral to criticize a fellow citizen for his/her lack of intelligence. Not everybody must become an Einstein; we do need shoemakers in our society, too.
Fourth, stop encouraging or supporting dysgenic fertility. People who were less successful should understand that they do no favor to the kids they bring to this world and should voluntarily stop making them in quantity above, say, one child per married couple.
Then, and only then, I would encourage AmRen readers to stop emphasizing genetic differences between racial groups as such comments might hurt those fellow Americans who are not a threat to our nation.
Posted by A Reader at 11:27 AM on December 8
“Yes, I would imagine most of them would get rejected from a real college or university because of their poor grades and college entrance scores. I also agree that HBCUs can create easy afrocentric junk classes that students should be able to pass.”
Very true. I’ve worked with people who held graduate degrees (including doctorates) from these places; most of them could barely communicate in English.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 11:43 AM on December 8
“Then, and only then, I would encourage AmRen readers to stop emphasizing genetic differences between racial groups as such comments might hurt those fellow Americans who are not a threat to our nation.”
You mean other nonwhites who shouldn’t be here in the first place?
As much as we can, and should, return illegals (mostly Mexicans) and their American born kids to their native countries, blacks are inseparable part of this nation and the social contract that we call the Constitution, no matter what the consequences are, and are entitled to help if they need it.
Blacks are running our country into the ground. Things will never change as long as the status quo remains. How much more help do we give them, at our expense? Two more centuries of
wealth transfers, affirmative action, free government giveaways and help raising a big family without a need to work? Do we wait till we’re outnumbered before we cut it off? Alot of us used to be patriotic Americans since birth. Now, with everything going to hell in a handbasket, if living in America means coddling these dysfunctional blacks from crib to grave, I want no part of it. It’s our money and it’s our choice.
Posted by at 12:38 PM on December 8
“I have known athletes from black colleges tha could not find a classroom after 4 yrs.”
This is a scenario that is FAR from isolated in black colleges, and as a matter of fact is probably worse i white ones. I remember some years back, Dexter Manley, who attended 4 years of school at Oklahoma St. revealed in his late thirties that he was completely illiterate!
Posted by at 1:10 PM on December 8
Those blacks who are admitted to the poorly staffed and intellectually inferior HBCU come from the bottom of the intellectual gene pool. If it were not so, they would attend a real university. But they choose to attend one of these fake universities, and by merely showing up for six years they get a diploma. Then, with that fake diploma, they can apply to, and be admitted to a legitimate professional school. Ask yourself if you want to be referred to one of these people when you need a cardiac surgeon or neurosurgeon. If you value your life, NEVER agree to become a patient of a black doctor.
Posted by A physician at 2:24 PM on December 8
In fact, a remarkable 40% of all African-Americans with a bachelor’s degree in the physical sciences, and 38% of those who majored in math or the biological sciences, attended HBCUs. Conversely, almost no students at HBCUs gravitate to black studies, gender studies and the like.
Ia that really so? Then the HBCU’s might be way better for getting a real education than studying at some “liberal” university the black and gender nonsense.
Posted by EW at 4:05 PM on December 8
Black colleges aren’t that much different than open ones. It’s not about money, political favors, or ‘grade inflation’. They’re largely about indoctrination. They teach the sames things as do other colleges but with more passion and intensity.
Posted by at 5:24 PM on December 8
“A friend of my son, who is white, attended Morgan State in Baltimore; a ‘black college’, on a minority scholarship”.
HBCU’s recruit non-blacks. It was my impression they were almost all foreigners
Posted by at 5:27 PM on December 8
You posters trashing black America have got it all wrong. Everytime you criticize their women, make fun of their degrees and schools, insult the Nation of Islam, etc., what your saying is you want them integrated in our societies. I personally don’t want that. I want separation of the races. Let them have their $1.98 degrees and become cardiologists and practice their own peculiar brand of witchdoctorism for their own communities. Most sane White people don’t seek them out and if they do, they get what they deserve.
Posted by at 5:51 PM on December 8
I agree with you A physician at 2:24 PM. Whenever I go to the hospital,pharmacy or whatever and one of those “scholars” walks up to wait on me,I run out of there!!!! I won’t even let a black wait on me at a car dealership because I know that he most likely got the job just to meet a quota and it kills me to think he’d be making a commission on me! It always embarrasses my wife but I refuse to go along with this “we’re all equally qualified” game! If more Whites would do this, these companies would stop hiring these clowns!!!
Posted by Tom S at 6:18 PM on December 8
Tom S. you and I are two of a kind. If I’m in a store and there’s no line at the register but the employee is black, I would just rather wait in line for someone White. Some stores are getting smart though. They’ll put a black in “Returns” and you have no choice but to deal with them. I think every day should be a “blackout” day.
Posted by at 11:02 PM on December 8
I won’t even let a black wait on me at a car dealership because I know that he most likely got the job just to meet a quota and it kills me to think he’d be making a commission on me! It always embarrasses my wife but I refuse to go along with this “we’re all equally qualified” game! If more Whites would do this, these companies would stop hiring these clowns!!!
Posted by Tom S at 6:18 PM on December 8
Actually its good to have a black on the other end of a negotiation since usually i get a better deal. they are pretty impulsive and easy to negotiate with. Look at all the african countries.
Posted by realist at 12:05 AM on December 9
No matter how you look at it, these colleges are practicing segregation. What is ‘segregation’, where non-whites have something and whites don’t have anything? More troubling is the ideological bent all these universities make official.
For all the dim-wit ‘intelligent’ white-nationalists out there, who think that whites can’t have their own pro-white organizations, too, unless a school is less than 90 percent white, or unless a school is less than 70 percent white, or unless their state is less than 60 percent white, or unless, the country as a whole is less than 40 percent white… that there always has to be some number before whites can have their own golf club, their own political organization, or their own white student organization, too, even one organization somewhere, a look inside black colleges will provide a working blueprint for you. A look there, or a look at many of America’s largest cities, or, at some states now in the United States of America. It can be done, and segregation too, if the will is there. No muss. No fuss.
Posted by at 7:26 AM on December 9
What ever happened to Historically White Colleges/Universities?
It is fine for blacks to have their own schools but by the same principle it is fine for whites to do the same. When was the last time you came across an all white college/university.
The record on HBCU’s is just what one would expect of a poor black imitation of a white institution. Universities were first established in the 12-13th centuries in Europe. The very idea of a black university is a contradiction in terms historically.
The problem with bogus degrees is the same as with bogus money, viz. it pretends to be something that it isn’t. Black “graduating” from this places are no more qualified than their brothers and sisters who stay in the underclass. But they have a piece of paper that is their ticket to success in a white society of handouts to blacks.
If I were black and rather unintelligent I would definitely party for 4 years and then get an academically worthless piece of paper — for it retains it social usefulness.
Posted by at 9:40 AM on December 9
Blacks are running our country into the ground.
Some of them are, some of them aren’t. The main problem here is that those who are multiply faster than those who aren’t. If this trend were reversed then there simply wouldn’t be enough of the former to actually run our country “into the ground”.
Just imagine would happen (within, say, two generations) if the government stopped paying people for having and rising kids that they cannot afford.
Posted by A Reader at 12:02 PM on December 9
They are all ” racist colleges ” not because they were created for ” blacks ” but because disproportionate tax money was robbed by our (?) government from original Americans, aka, white -Christians and given to racial discriminatory agencies. Black private money should be the only source of income for black colleges.Fair is fair.
Posted by Michigan patriot at 12:26 PM on December 9
“But academic expectations are also low elsewhere, and black students still drop out in alarmingly large numbers.”
Posted by at 8:08 PM on December 7
The reason is based on something very basic that I’ve not heard anyone mention (naturally, when it’s brought up, everyone goes “of course” as if they knew all along; but their faces always give them away).
The first requirement for any learning situation is Behavioral, not Intellectual.
And that requirement is — - to sit still and keep quiet for considerable periods of time. Especially when you are young.
If the habit is not developed early it is extremely difficult, though NOT impossible, to aquire it later.
The implications to this obvious (though obviously neglected) fact are terrifying.
Because it means that the Educational Institutions in America have essentially set up a system whereby Blacks are never expected to perform this basic behavioral pattern fundamental to any learning process, with the predictable result that they never learn; at the same time these Institutions enable the symptoms resulting from this inability (symptoms such as apathy, scurrilousness, and violence), by ignoring, explaining away, or even in some cases, justifying it. And not by blaming it on THEIR irresponsibility, but on, OUR racism.
This accusation is a, by now, transparent and unsuccessful, attempt to deflect all public attention from the real heart of the matter, ie; Their own failed policies; policies doomed to fail, given the low intellectual and ethical level of the teachers themselves.
Now, when you add the growing number of Hispanics to the mix( who, like Blacks, are automatically placed above criticism), than you have the recipe for a disaster, not merely “waiting to happen” as the cliche goes, but absolutely inevitable.
I am not qualified to speak on the findings concerning IQ.
I am, however, qualified to speak from both personal experience, and a knowledge of the learning process itself, as stated in brief in this post.
Either way, the only requirement to understand is basic common sense.
If you don’t sit still and keep quite you won’t listen, and so, won’t develop listening skills. And listening, active, attentive listening, is perhaps the most difficult skill any human being learns, if they learn it, and clearly not nearly enough do.
So, if you don’t know how to sit still, you won’t know how to listen…
If you don’t know how to listen you won’t learn.
If you don’t learn you’ll have a low IQ.
But, this problem was in place when Blacks were still slaves.
America is a cultural extension of Europe.
Europe was a rich and highly developed culture on many levels.
The History of the United States is the history of the progressive westward movement of European culture into alien physical environments and in constant contact with less-developed cultres, both Indian, Black and Hispanic. Thus, it was transformed into a frontier culture. Frontier patterns are still the basic cultural patterns of the USA, and the frontier values are still our fundamental values.
We went from a very rich, highly structured culture to a frontier culture within our first 200 years as a Nation.
Instead of an Educational System that encourages correction of learning patterns based on continual exposure to problem solving and feedback, we developed a system based on immediate resolution of any and every problem through a process of over-simplification, reductionism and the natural, though again, neglected, result of both, violence. Hence our reputation as a violent culture, with or without Blacks, though undeniably more with.
In short, we were in a dumbing down process long before Blacks were even freed from slavery.
Hence the sight of millions of Americas across the country packing movie theatres to cheer John Wayne on as he shot down anyone he had a problem with.
Fast forward 50 years later and we should hardly be surprised that Blacks cheer each other on for doing the exact same thing, and even less so when they do it to “The Man.”
But we ARE surprised because we’re historically ignorant.
And we’re historically ignorant because of this Frontier Culture of habitual and drastic over-simplification of complex human problems.
And when you live off of, and are dependent on, a cognitive model of over-simplification to complex problems you increase the complexity while simultaneously decreasing your ability to solve them.
In short, A vicious cycle.
Let’s solve THAT problem first, and fast.
THEN we can talk more intelligently and constructively about what to do concerning Race in America.
We need the Bikers and the Thinkers,
We need the Bodies and the Minds,
We need to work together in a concerted, yet friendly and respectful manner.
It is still within the realm of possibility; and it most certainly will give many of us a much needed purpose and renewed sense of value.
It’s time to learn from the lessons of History through Thought and Action, not guilt and shame. Guilt and Shame are two things that do absolutely nothing to solve problems.
But Thought and Action are another matter entirely. And when it comes to both our Culture and History offer incalculable and infinite riches.
Posted by Ralph Emerson at 3:59 PM on December 9
“They are all ” racist colleges ” not because they were created for ” blacks ” but because disproportionate tax money was robbed by our (?) government”
They are racist because of what they teach
Posted by at 1:43 PM on December 10
Oh, an important part left out in my post on December 9th.
That Europe is in no position to sneer, since we began successfully selling them our kit of “Over-Simplify Everything” tools over 40 years ago, with the result that they are even more hopeless over the same problems that plague us.
Posted by Ralph Emerson at 9:27 PM on December 10
In PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, Jared Taylor states that blacks do better at HBC’s than at predominantly white schools, and that is probably true. BTW, O.J. transferred to U of S. CA after 2 yrs. at a community college, but I don’t know if he graduated from USC. He’s barely literate, at any rate, as his possibly suicidal note from June ‘94 showed.
Posted by Cindy at 9:19 AM on December 12