American Renaissance

The Unspeakable Practice of Female Circumcision That’s Destroying Young Women’s Lives in Britain

AR Articles on Britain
Whites as Kulaks (Jan. 2002)
Report from Britain (Sep. 2001)
Oldham Erupts (Jul. 2001)
No Representation (May 2001)
The Racial Transformation of Britain (Aug. 2000)
Black Crime in Britain (Apr. 1996)
Search AmRen.com for Britain
More news stories on Britain
Jo-Ann Goodwin and David Jones, London Daily Mail, January 3, 2008

The girl is 15 years old but looks much younger. Her face has the fine-boned elegance typical of her native Somalia, but her accent belongs to the streets of East London. She is plainly terrified. That much is clear from the way she avoids eye contact and constantly fidgets in her chair.

“Promise you won’t print my name or anything?” she implores repeatedly. “Promise no one will ever know that I’ve spoken to you? If people in my community find out, they’ll say that I’ve betrayed them and I’ll have to run away. And anyway, I don’t want my parents to be sent to jail.”

With great courage, this British-Somali girl — she asks that we call her “Lali” — is about to describe a barbaric act of ritualised cruelty which has been perpetrated against her. Knowing the danger to which she is exposing herself, her anxiety is entirely understandable.

For by speaking about it, Lali will break the ultimate taboo among Britain’s 600,000 ethnic Africans. In Norway, where this brutal act is also prevalent, a young Somali woman was recently beaten, almost to death, for talking to TV documentary programme-makers.

It is known by a variety of names, the most common of which are female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or simply “cutting” — a word which somehow conveys the raw pain its prepubescent victims suffer.

Most people will be unfamiliar with this practice, which involves removing part or all of the clitoris, the surrounding labia (the outer part of the vagina) and sometimes the sewing up of the vagina, leaving only a small opening for urine and menstrual blood.

It is carried out for a variety of cultural reasons. Such is the secrecy that surrounds the practice that even those aware that it occurs in large swathes of Africa and Asia will be shocked to learn that it is prevalent in Britain.

During a highly disturbing, four-month investigation, however, we uncovered evidence that thousands of British-African girls, in towns and cities throughout the country, have been forcibly “cut”.

By conservative estimates, 66,000 women and girls living in Britain have been mutilated. This figure, accepted by the Metropolitan Police, came in a report by a volunteer organisation funded by the Department of Health and carried out with academics from the London School of Tropical Hygiene and the City University.

And thousands more girls are at imminent risk as families club together to fly professional “cutters” from Africa to Britain.

These women “elders” perform the crude operation for up to £40 a time, often on kitchen tables or floors, without anaesthetic, using filthy, blunt knives, razor blades or scalpels.

Many readers will be distressed by our report, but this practice is an abomination which has no place anywhere, let alone in a civilised society, and if it is to be expunged then this is a story that must be told.

There is no way of escaping the unpalatable terminology, just as there is no way for girls like Lali to escape the unsterile knife which cuts them as they are held down and which will result in a lifetime of physical and psychological pain.

Some people say the practice is to increase the sexual pleasure of the man, but this is only one appallingly outdated reason why many womenfolk from 28 African and some Middle Eastern countries, most of which have sizeable representation in Britain, are treated like this.

It is also done to demonstrate their virginity on their wedding night; and because “uncut” girls with the ability to enjoy love-making are considered more likely to be promiscuous, unhygienic, and prone to diseases such as Aids.

Attempts are also made to justify this iniquitous practice on religious grounds. Some hard-line Muslims insist that women must undergo genital cutting to remain faithful to the purest teachings of Islam — although, in truth, it is not even mentioned in the Koran, and only ambiguously in the Hadith (a collection of oral traditions about the life of the prophet Mohammed).

Several leadings Imams have openly condemned the practice. This, though, does not deter its proponents, who maintain that it is their inalienable right to live according to their traditional beliefs and customs, rather than conform to British values. Indeed, some argue that the freedom to carry out FGM is a fundamental principle of our multi-cultural society.

Whatever the arguments, the fact is that genital mutilation is a reality, and the Metropolitan police is so concerned that it recently set up a special unit to investigate and prosecute the perpetrators. Heading the unit is Detective Inspector Carol Hamilton, herself a mother, who was horrified when she discovered what was happening to other people’s daughters.

The Met team also educates regional police forces about FGM, and speaks to mosques, community groups and local authorities.

Usually their visits are well-received, but we found that at least one London council declined to publish material highlighting the suffering and danger the practice causes — for fear of offending ethnic African residents.

This kind of attitude incenses Detective Inspector Hamilton. “We are all becoming very culturally sensitive,” she says. “People are a bit frightened of saying ‘You can’t do this here’ because people shoot back with ‘But it’s our culture’.

“But it’s not: this is just plain cruel. I won’t be put off by the politically correct argument. We have to be seen to be strong on this. I don’t care about human rights — I care about the rights of the child. Everything else has to go out of the window.

“We have one rule in child protection: the child is of paramount importance. I stick by that firmly.”

Together with the Waris Dirie Foundation, an international campaign group formed by the Somali-born supermodel who suffered genital mutilation as a five-year-old child, the Met announced a £20,000 reward last July for information leading to the conviction of anyone who performs or abets cutting.

Under the 2003 Female Genital Mutilation Act, those involved could be jailed for 14 years. Yet the fact that no one has been prosecuted says much about the problems the police are facing.

“There are thousands of girls being cut in your country,” says Waris Dirie spokesman Walter Hutschinger. “We are sure it’s going on, and on a very big scale. Your law is one of the most comprehensive in the world, but it is useless if nobody will help to implement it.

“We have been contacted by girls from all parts of Britain — London, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Liverpool, Reading, Slough, Milton Keynes, Crawley — anywhere there are big African communities.

“Many of these girls know they are about to be cut and are desperate for help, but they are even more afraid of what might happen to them if they come out in the open.

“One young woman wrote recently to tell us that she was about to be taken home to Somalia to be cut, and she was terrified because her older sister had died after cutting. [To avoid detection, the mutilation is often done in a girl’s native country.]

“She was thinking of running away — but she didn’t know where she could go or what she would do. The girl says genital mutilation has destroyed her family. We wrote back offering a meeting, but she has not been back in touch.’

During our investigation, we found similar difficulty finding girls willing publicly to condemn a practice whose “virtues” are impressed upon them from infancy so that they are effectively brainwashed into believing it to be an essential step towards womanhood.

Lali is so determined that other girls should be spared the misery she has endured since the cutter came to call four years ago that, last week, she bravely told us her story.

She was three years old when her family left impoverished, war-ravaged Somalia and settled in the East End of London, where her early childhood life seemed immeasurably better.

Everything changed for Lali when she was 11 years old. One morning, her mother told her, quite casually, that they were to visit another Somali girl, whom she liked.

“I thought I was just going to play with my friend, so I was happy,” Lali says quietly, avoiding eye contact.

Soon after she arrived at the friend’s anonymous council house, however, cold reality dawned. In fact, Lali’s mother had secretly joined together with several other women to pay for a “cutter” to travel to London from Mogadishu to circumcise their daughters.

“They believed it had to be done, otherwise we would never get a husband,’ Lali shrugs.

What happened next was like a scene from medieval times. Her mother, other female relatives and family friends suddenly grabbed Lali and grappled her to the floor. Then, on cue, the strange woman came in, like a torturer with her bag of implements.

“They held me down, and when the woman began cutting I screamed, so my friend’s sister put her hand tightly over my mouth,” she says. “I had known her and these other women all my life, and now they were doing … this.”

The cutting often results in life-threatening complications such as septicaemia, haemorrhaging or cysts, but in this respect Lali was fortunate. Outwardly, at least, she quickly recovered and returned to school, too frightened and ashamed to tell her teachers and friends about her ordeal.

However, the legacy of the atrocity inflicted on her when she was 11 years old will always remain. When a marriage is arranged for her, sex will be a painful duty to be endured.

If she is lucky enough to avoid the pre-natal complications frequently caused by genital mutilation and have children, she will almost certainly have to undergo a Caesarean section.

“It is the most traumatic rite of passage,” says Comfort Mohmoh, a doctor who runs a Well Woman Clinic at London’s St Thomas’ Hospital and has performed a number of successful operations to reverse genital mutilation — a procedure possible only in less severe cases. She sees from 400 to 500 cases a year.

“These women get abdominal pains, backache, extremely painful periods, recurring urinary infections and, inevitably, a great deal of pain during intercourse.”

Lali is already encountering some of these physical problems, yet in some ways the emotional and psychological damage is even worse.

“What happened to me has totally broken my trust in the women I loved,” she told us. “I didn’t believe my mother could let this happen. My love for her has changed.

“It hurt so much. I would never let my children suffer this. I don’t believe this is right. It’s a stupid, old-fashioned custom. Why can’t we forget it?”

This alienation between mothers and daughters, of course, is another subtle way in which the practice subjects African women to male authority. Among the many otherwise educated and reasonable British-African men we spoke to, however, few were willing to call a halt.

With breathtaking sadism, their attitude was summed up by one man during an internet chat forum for Somalis living in Britain. “They should get their kintirs [Somalian for clitoris] cut off if they can’t control their passions,” was his message to liberated female compatriots.

One lone voice was Asif, a 26-year-old Somali mechanic who came to London at 15 — though his reasoning was hardly reassuring.

“We call these girls ‘table-tops’ because they are like wood,” he told us. Rapping his fist on the table, he added: “Who wants to make love to this? I would never allow this to happen to my daughters.”

As Detective Inspector Hamilton has discovered, however, he is very much in the minority. “I met one group of Somalis and got the message that cutting was even stronger here than in Somalia,” she says. “Here, it seems, they feel the need to keep their traditions going.

“But detection is very difficult. If somebody rings and tells us a girl has been subjected to it, how do you check that? Especially when the family seem quite reasonable and say they don’t believe in it, but refuse permission for the children to be medically examined.”

Perhaps we should take a lead from France, whose methods of prevention have been strengthened following a landmark case in 1999, when a woman of West African origins was jailed for eight years for cutting 48 young children.

Now all French children of African background are closely scrutinised by social workers and doctors during infancy, and any abnormal behaviour or prolonged absence from school is immediately investigated.

It is also considered a duty of French doctors to examine any ethnic African girls they suspect have been mutilated and, waiving usual patient confidentiality rules, report their parents to the police if their suspicions are confirmed.

In this age of political correctness, no doubt, factions in Britain will argue that such interventionist activity is discriminatory and a breach of human rights. There will also be those who believe female genital mutilation to be an issue for the African community to resolve, arguing that our overstretched police and health professionals have more pressing matters to address.

Detective Inspector Hamilton was persuaded otherwise when she sat through a graphic video showing a cutter at work. With its haunting screams and bloodied instruments, this real-life horror film changed her life.

“These little girls shouldn’t have to live in that other world,” she says. “They go to school here. Their homes and friends are here. They are our little girls. They are British. What is happening to them is barbaric — and it must be stopped.”

* Anyone with information about female circumcision should call Crimestoppers in confidence 0800 555111, or email david.jones@dailymail.co.uk

Original article

Email David Jones at david.jones@dailymail.co.uk.

(Posted on January 3, 2008)

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Comments

They are not British, they live in Britain thanks to the British government. This is THEIR culture and the circumcision is part of it. We think it’s horrible, they don’t. Let them go to their countries of origin and practice their customs.

Posted by at 6:37 PM on January 3


“It is carried out for a variety of cultural reasons.”


And those would be? Seriously, I want to know. Because every time I hear reference to “cultural reasons”, it is nothing more than a euphemism for the fact that those people act in a generally ignorant and barbaric fashion all the time. Hey. Why do they burn a man’s wife at the stake when he dies? Oh, a variety of cultural reasons. Why do blacks with HIV rape children? A variety of cultural reasons. Hmmm….those children are starving because their parents insist that western food aid is somehow “cursed”. Cultural reasons.

Isn’t time we were honest as to why these things are done? The culture, in question, is both evil and ignorant. And we really shouldn’t allow contact between them and us.

Posted by at 6:56 PM on January 3


What a pathetic commentary on the horrors of the age of multiculturalism. Every time I think we’ve hit bottom, a new horror emerges.

These multicultural horrors wouldn’t even exist in the UK if Somalians and others like them were kept out of the UK in the first place.

Posted by at 6:59 PM on January 3


And to all the feminists out there constantly complaining about the state of their lives in societies run by White men, I say, “Honey, it could be a LOT worse.”

Posted by idareya at 9:26 PM on January 3


Isn’t it amazing how lefties put women’s lib behind race, homosexualality and culture? Could you imagine if a White male wanted to cut off his wifes clitoris?

Posted by PincheGabacho at 9:33 PM on January 3


Those who commit this multilation should,if found out,be deported and forever banned from even brief ‘visits’ to any area of civilization.Otherwise,jailed for longer periods than a mere 8 years,as was the mutilator in the story.The longer such mutilators are accepted as part of a ‘diverse’ society,the longer their idiocy will plague their innocent victims.

Posted by at 9:49 PM on January 3


“It hurt so much. I would never let my children suffer this. I don’t believe this is right. It’s a stupid, old-fashioned custom. Why can’t we forget it?”

The new generation has no qualms about discarding these customs.
Give it another 30 years and there will be a community ready to civilize any new immigrants that come to Britain. Enlightenment culture is superior to feudal culture, it just needs a little bit more time to win people over.

Posted by at 10:01 PM on January 3


“Give it another 30 years …Enlightenment culture is superior to feudal culture, it just needs a little bit more time to win people over.”
- - - - - - - - - - -
It’s nice to think so but take off the rose-colored glasses.
You’re making an optimistic assumption which may or may not turn out to be true. Let’s hope so; but the best does not always win out in the end. Otherwise, why has the world had 1300 years of aggressive and still-expanding Islam?

Furthermore, “enlightenment culture” can not win if it is overwhelmed and extinguished by a tidal wave of immigration.

Also, you are giving far too little time — only 30 years. Do you realize how fast 30 years can pass? I would give it twice that before entertaining any hope for amelioration. But who wants to wait 50 or 60 years for what is, after all, just a hopeful gamble that you may be right? It will be a different world by then.

Posted by browser at 10:59 PM on January 3


The new generation has no qualms about discarding these customs.
Give it another 30 years and there will be a community ready to civilize any new immigrants that come to Britain.

That is moronic. Does Britain need to continue taking in immigrants 30 years from now? Of course not.

Posted by Ronduck at 3:32 AM on January 4


Despite the fact that this is perpetuated by women, the feminists, if they ever address this at all, will find some way to blame it on men and probably white men at that.

Posted by Amsterdamsky at 4:36 AM on January 4


I dunno, hundreds of thousands of innocent male babies are “cut” every year in america with no say in the matter and no one ever sticks up for them.

Posted by at 8:29 AM on January 4


This is an excellent way to fight the propaganda that Muslim immigrants are always the “victims” of us, the evil White Western racists. Focus on the very negative things Muslim immigrants do to women, gays, non Muslims. We need to take away the power of the PC Diversity Crowd and have the Left turn against mass immigration. It can be done, it was done in Holland.

We have produced a music video slide show posted on Youtube on this theme -
the Religion of Peace and the idiots in the West that welcome it to our countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixXTlrxpPI4

Please review.

Posted by JR at 11:26 AM on January 4


PincheGabacho: “Isn’t it amazing how lefties put women’s lib behind race, homosexuality and culture?”

Not really. In cultural Marxism there is a clear hierarchy of pieties:

1) Heterosexual women are sacred but not as sacred as gays and lesbians;

2) Gays and lesbians are sacred but not as sacred as non-whites;

3) Non-whites are sacred, but Muslim non-whites are the MOST SACRED OF ALL.

Posted by Johnny English at 12:14 PM on January 4


The state department consular officers are the workers who hand out the visas. They are a heavily female/minority group.

They are giving out refugee visas to thousands and thousands of Somalians every year.

And the America based Somalians are very agressive in asserting their religious rights and privileges, demanding foot baths in the work place etc, and circumzising their girls.

And of course the ACLU types uphold the practice of barbaric customs as long as they are practiced by blacks, immigrants and other non Whites.

Posted by margaret at 1:25 PM on January 4


“who wants to wait 50 or 60 years for what is, after all, just a hopeful gamble that you may be right? It will be a different world by then.” — browser


And, as Ronduck says, this simplistic notion is based on the assumption that Britain will STILL be taking in immigrants needing to be civilized after all that time! Is there to be no end to it???

That over-crowded little island will sink under the weight of all its teeming humanity.

Posted by ghw at 2:20 PM on January 4


This is not our problem.

Posted by Schoolteacher at 3:21 PM on January 4


“Give it another 30 years and there will be a community ready to civilize any new immigrants that come to Britain.”

That isn’t supported by the evidence in my opinion. There have been significant Muslim immigrant populations in Britain, mainly of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, since the 1960s. That is more than 40 years. But they have not assimilated. Indeed they actively resist assimilation by constantly importing Pakistani and Bangladeshi wives for arranged marriages, wives who can’t speak English and transmit a Pakistani or Bangladeshi way of life to their children.

In 30 years there won’t be much left of Britain at the current rate, at least in our major towns and cities.

In the northern towns and cities of England there is another horrible byproduct of multiculturalism: young English girls in their early teens being tricked and drugged into prostitution by Pakistani gangs. Many Pakistanis seem to regard any non-Muslim girl or woman as little more than a common whore and fair game for rape or abuse. On the other hand English children are taught by Marxists and liberals in their schools to despise their own people and culture and value “diversity” above everything while also doing their best to destroy their childhoods with premature sexualisation. Thus these girls are easy prey, seeing a Pakistani “boyfriend” as “cool” and you have the disgusting spectacle of a 13 year old English girl with a 24 year old Pakistani “boyfriend” who pimps her out.

The British National Party highlighted this several years ago but were dismissed as racist scareongers. Now at last a mainstream newspaper has picked up on the story: https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2538090.ece?Submitted=true

A political class and police chiefs that accepts its nation’s children being targeted for rape and prostitution by immigrants rather than risk those immigrants rioting is beneath contempt. Fortunately more and more Britons are waking up and the BNP’s support is growing, but it is a very difficult task.

Posted by Ed at 4:03 PM on January 4


Deportation should be mandatory for any family that won’t comply with Western norms. No honor killings, no dowry killings, no mutilation, no human sacrifices. I can’t believe that we are even arguing about this!!!! Send them all back!!!!

Posted by Disgusted at 4:17 PM on January 4


Sadly, this barbarism will probably continue, the women who practice mutilation are doing it because their men will not accept uncut girls as wives. When these girls grow up they will send their own children to be cut as it’s a matter of survival and their culture demands this practice.
The silence from Feminists and other Oh so concerned groups speaks volumes about their true objectives.
Arc

Posted by Arcadian at 6:17 PM on January 4


Posted by 8:29 AM on January 4: “I dunno, hundreds of thousands of innocent male babies are “cut” every year in america with no say in the matter and no one ever sticks up for them.”

Regardless of one’s views on western male circumcision, these two practices are not remotely comparable, 8:29 AM. Re-read the article.


Posted by Jane T. at 6:57 PM on January 4


Posted by 8:29 AM on January 4: “I dunno, hundreds of thousands of innocent male babies are “cut” every year in america with no say in the matter and no one ever sticks up for them.”

Posted by Jane T. at 6:57 PM on January 4
Regardless of one’s views on western male circumcision, these two practices are not remotely comparable, 8:29 AM. Re-read the article.

Jane, they are exactly the same, and done for the same reasons - to limit the pleasure experienced during sex. Circumcision is circumcision. Would this be okay, if we did it to baby girls?

Posted by TastyPaper at 11:25 PM on January 4



“Give it another 30 years and there will be a community ready to civilize any new immigrants that come to Britain.”

That isn’t supported by the evidence in my opinion. There have been significant Muslim immigrant populations in Britain, mainly of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, since the 1960s. That is more than 40 years. But they have not assimilated.
posted by Ed
……………………..
I’m sure this immigration has been going on for a very long time, even while India was still a colony, although just not in such great numbers. I remember an Indian doctor (Moslem), in one of Bernard Shaw’s plays (Pigmalion?) which was probably written nearly a hundred years ago, and a devout Egyptian doctor in The Millionairess. So Britain has long experience with Moslems. They didn’t civilize the more recent arrivals, so why should we assume it will be different in another 30 years?

Posted by ghw at 12:32 AM on January 5


Regardless of one’s views on western male circumcision, these two practices are not remotely comparable, 8:29 AM. Re-read the article.


Posted by Jane T. at 6:57 PM on January 4


If you had to live with the results and consequences of a male circumcision gone wrong, you would not be so flippant with your comments….how dare you!

Posted by Brian at 12:32 AM on January 5


Pardon me for asking, but why are there 600,000 Africans in Britain?

Posted by at 2:50 AM on January 5


TastyPaper - I’m not defending circumcision for either sex, but the reasons FGM is performed is not to merely “limit” female sexual pleasure, but to prevent it entirely, along with all the other sick, ignorant reasons this barbarity is performed.

Brian - I made my “flippant” comments fully aware that male circumcision can have terrible consequences for some men, but also based upon personally knowing FGM victims. The difference, however, is that FGM is *intended* to produce those terrible consequences. I’m sorry, but I do “dare” to disagree with you.

Gentlemen, do you truly not see a difference?

Posted by Jane T. at 5:06 PM on January 5


Posted by Jane T. at 6:57 PM on January 4 “Regardless of one’s views on western male circumcision, these two practices are not remotely comparable.”

Male circumcision is not “western.” It is “American.” No European country practices or condones male circumcision, and are even shocked that the practice is common in an advanced, industrialized country like the U.S.

Why would the two practices not be similar? Both remove normal, healthy erogenous tissue for the sole reason of upholding a deeply embedded tradition/custom, and both harm sexual functioning(though perhaps not to the same degree).

After mutilating millions of its boys, the U.S. has no right to to speak out about the mutilation of girls. It is utter hypocrisy. Both practices should vanish from the face of the earth, period.

Posted by at 5:06 PM on January 5


“Pardon me for asking, but why are there 600,000 Africans in Britain?”

Uh, the tourists demanded to see more “color” and the government obliged them?

Posted by at 8:20 PM on January 5


I love ethnic diversity. Nothing enriches me more than the thought of a Somali girl visiting an ‘uncle’ in Birmingham to have her bits and pieces hacked off on a cold monday morning. The problem in the UK is that laws are not enforced. It is illegal to carry a knife and should lead to a prison sentence if caught. Youngsters are not being locked up so they continue to carry knives and kids get stabbed to death every week. The neo-liberal approach to crime is ‘sacrifice a few to preserve the feelings of many’ - as long as the ‘many’ are the right groups, of course.

But the most infuriating aspect of the above story is that these girls will eventually win compensation of millions each because the government wouldn’t protect them.

Posted by at 9:46 PM on January 5


“Pardon me for asking, but why are there 600,000 Africans in Britain?”

We had a referendum and we all thought it would be a marvelous idea. Can’t wait for the Kenyans to arrive!

Posted by at 9:54 PM on January 5


“Male circumcision is not “western.”… No European country practices or condones male circumcision, and are even shocked that the practice is common in an advanced, industrialized country like the U.S.”

Given the Islamic invasion that is under way there, that will not be the case in another 20 or 30 years. Get ready!

Posted by ghw at 11:18 PM on January 5


5:06 PM on January 5 makes some good points:

“Male circumcision is not “western.” It is “American.” No European country practices or condones male circumcision, and are even shocked that the practice is common in an advanced, industrialized country like the U.S.”

True, and thanks for pointing out that important distinction. But if I’m not mistaken, the Jewish community everywhere continues to practice it.

“Why would the two practices not be similar? Both remove normal, healthy erogenous tissue for the sole reason of upholding a deeply embedded tradition/custom, and both harm sexual functioning(though perhaps not to the same degree).”

Again, true, but there’s no “perhaps” about the degree of harm resulting from FGM - which was the point of my original post.

“Both practices should vanish from the face of the earth, period.”

I agree entirely. And while we’re at it, let’s also condemn breast implants and the increasingly popular trend toward cosmetic labial surgery.

Posted by Jane T. at 12:30 PM on January 6


There’s nothing that man does that can improve on the human body, both female and male.

If nature had intended that men and women should be circumcized because of some necessity, that those who love doing it want us to believe, then some kind of slow evolution over thousands of years would have occurred to make them that way.

No matter what is claimed to the contrary mutilating the human form can only cause problems, not cure them or prevent them.

Whether it is sacrificing small animals to an invisible lunatic in the sky, or mutilating the human form some way, doing either using the excuse of religious rituals doesn’t make them any less of as crime.

Posted by Robert Kelly at 12:53 PM on January 6


JR posted:

“We have produced a music video slide show posted on Youtube on this theme -
the Religion of Peace and the idiots in the West that welcome it to our countries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixXTlrxpPI4”

Is your video still up? This link just goes to the YT homepage…

Posted by at 7:13 PM on January 6


Circumcision, an ancient Jewish practice, was adopted in this country as a health measure, not to control sexuality. Smegma, the mix of exfoliated skin, body oil, dirt, and bacteria that collects under the foreskin, is foul stuff. Think of it as malignant navel lint. If you are less than dilligent in your personal hygiene, as most boys are, it can be a source of infection.
I won’t argue for or against the practice, but I have a few observations.
1. I could not care less if Europeans disapprove of any American custom. They don’t like gun ownership either.
2. Orthodox Jews are explicitly in favor of sexual pleasure, within marriage. They don’t seem to be hindered at all by circumcision.
3. The fact that a procedure, badly done, has ill-consequences is no reason not to do it. We all drive cars, a much more dangerous activity. It is simply a risk, and in the case of circumcision, a negligible risk, as long as the doctor is sober.
I don’t know why circumcision should stir people up so, but at least keep the discourse rational.

Posted by Schoolteacher at 8:22 PM on January 6


Pardon me for asking, but why are there 600,000 Africans in Britain? The same reasons why the British are in Dubai and States, make a living mate.

Posted by at 2:13 PM on January 7


“Male circumcision is not “western.” It is “American.” It is not! Read your Bible or Quran well.

Posted by at 2:15 PM on January 7


Posted by at 2:15 PM on January 7

“‘Male circumcision is not western. It is American.’ It is not! Read your Bible or Quran well.”

Your comment has nothing to do with the original post, so read the posts well. We are not debating who the first circumcisers were or anything of that sort. Yes, Jews and Muslims circumcise. But Jane T. posted at 6:57 PM on January 4 that circumcision of girls is not comparable to the western practice of male circumcision. If you use the term western, you cannot be referring to the worldwide religious practice of Jews and Muslims. According to Webster’s, western means 1. stemming from the Greco-Roman tradition, 2. of or relating to the non-communist countries of Europe and America 3. of or relating to the Roman Catholic or Protestant segment of Christianity.

So, how are the Jewish and Muslim faiths part of Roman Catholicism and Protestant Chritianity? How are they stemming from the Greco-Roman tradition? And if Europe is included along with America, then male circumcision cannot be considered western, since Europe does not practice it and even condemns it.

Posted by at 6:11 PM on January 7


“I won’t argue for or against the practice, but I have a few observations.”

All your observations were in favor of it.

The doctor had my wife believing the same thing you do when my son was born, but I put a stop to it.

This uncleanliness claim is just to get another easy fee for the doctor. It’s absurd.

Posted by at 9:42 PM on January 7


“Male circumcision is not “western.” It is “American.”

It is not! Read your Bible or Quran well.
Posted by at 2:15 PM

— — — — — — — — — — —

According to scholars and anthropologists I have read, It is an African custom, picked up by the Hebrews while they were slaves in Egypt.

Even among Moslems, it remains an African custom (for females).

Regarding the comment about the Greco-Roman tradition, BOTH cultures were firmly against it. The Greeks considered it a desecration of the human form. The Romans even outlawed it.

Posted by browser at 2:01 AM on January 8


If the world woke up tomorrow to discover that virtually every Muslim on the planet had simply disappeared there would be no negative impact upon mankind whatsoever and people everywhere would rejoice…

Posted by at 8:17 AM on January 8


“Circumcision, an ancient Jewish practice, was adopted in this country as a health measure, not to control sexuality. “
Posted by Schoolteacher at 8:22

Not so. I won’t go into detail here, as this is not the place for it. But the facts are that:
1. it was already practiced in Africa (by the Egyptians) long before the Jews acquired it.
2. it definitely WAS promoted by its advocates in the 19th century as a measure to control or stifle sexuality.

You further state: “The fact that a procedure, badly done, has ill-consequences is no reason not to do it. We all drive cars, a much more dangerous activity. It is simply a risk… a negligible risk”

Well, why do a risky procedure that can have ill-consecquences, however negligible, if there is no good [medical] reason? Why take any risk? We drive cars because we have to. But there is no rational cause to do a proecdure that can have ill consequences if it is unnecessary, but is simply a matter of ancient tribal custom — which is what it is in ALL GROUPS that practice it (except Americans).

Incidentally, I do not equate male with female “circumcision”, which I agree is more severe. In the female case, it is a misnomer, a euphemism. “Excision” would be more accurate.

I do agree with you that the discourse should be kept rational.

Posted by browser at 11:35 PM on January 8


Well Browser, what can I say? My mother told me it was done for health reasons. Maybe she was misinformed. Maybe you are. In any case, if people believe that there are health benefits to be had from circumcision, they will reason that the risk is negligible and have it done. Even if people think only that there might possibly be benefits, the risk is too slight to deter them. The decision remains rational, even if, as you say, the premises are incorrect.
BTW, why should WN object to the idea of tribal customs? We’re not libertarians. I’m fond of lots of White tribal customs, regardless of their rationality.

Posted by Schoolteacher at 3:36 AM on January 10


At www.intact.ca, you can watch a video of circumcision being performed, and you can get a lot of other information.

I abhor this harmful and absurd practice, and can hardly bear to discuss it. We have been conditioned to believe that what is cut off and thrown away is of no significance — that is so untrue.

Strap down a baby’s arms and legs and cut off part of his genital, and, until recently, without anesthetic. Certainly there is no harm in that.

People can be conditioned to accept anything.

Posted by H. Dumpty at 1:13 AM on January 15



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